Talk:Marilyn Manson tours

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Marilyn Manson tours article.
This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.

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Tours and Tour Legs Categories[edit]

At the moment there is only one major [[Category:Tour Dates]] category for live performance articles. There are few minor valuable categories too, but is it reasonable to make more major categories like '''[[Category:''Tour Name'']] and '''[[Category:''Tour Leg Name'']]? (scarshock 16:24, 11 December 2009 (UTC))

Excellent! I can do it with these categories (for THEoL tour):
[[Category:Tour Dates]] [[Category:The High End of Low Tour]] [[Category:The High End of Low European Festival Tour]]
This is sample for 2009/06/03 Brno, Czech Republic. --M1shael 14:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
Great! Not bad if you have some free time. I think this idea can please everyone making the tours, tour legs and tour dates more consistent. I've just checked a random NIN wiki page regarding to the NIN tour dates, and I saw NIN wiki editors used the same approach categorizing the tour dates. Would you do it, M1shael? Then we could evaluate a further attempt of the consistent development for the MansonWiki. (scarshock 15:16, 15 December 2009 (UTC))

My last editing[edit]

This month we've got a few new editors here. But it seems somewhat strange that they do not take into consideration the long-term unwritten law article editing rules. Especially I can't see the reason of creating the articles for performances that have not taken place yet, though it breaks the edit chronology. ))) I'm not sure I have a lot of strength to remain a MansonWiki editor and keep an eye on wikification for a lot of newer and newer edits. So I've decided that this edit would become the last edit. Thank you collaboration, Litso, Vixen Windstorm, Lagozzino, Damc-321, M1shael, I4igo and Yawaraey. I love you. P.S. I can't get why I have edited just the page (probably because of the tour performances that have not taken place yet). :D Sorry. ))) (scarshock 09:07, 19 December 2009 (UTC))

New Table[edit]

Tour Duration Location
Guns, God and Government Tour
Guns, God and Government North American Tour 2000/10/27 – 2001/01/13 North America
Guns, God and Government Spring European Tour 2001/01/21 – 2001/02/24 Europe
Guns, God and Government Spring Japan Tour 2001/03/11 – 2001/03/20 Japan
Grotesk Burlesk
Grotesk Burlesk Spring European Tour 2003/04/11 – 2003/06/21 Europe

What do you think about new table for tours section? I have seen this here. --M1shael 09:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

That's Pretty Sexy... I Rike It A Lot M1shael.... :) godspeed 14:01, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

If you really like it, can I change the current version of the table on new version? --M1shael 15:44, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I like it, because it gives access to the tour leg pages a lot faster than the old way, but I'm a bit afraid it'll be so long that it's going to miss it's point.. Especially the more recent tours have seen so many tour legs it will be a very long list. Also you wont be able to see from and to what dates the entire tour spanned.. Will it still be usable enough? Maybe we could find a way to have the current list include expand-buttons that reveal the legs when clicked.. Also the Unabridged Dates part on ninwiki is a bit overkill. You dont need a section/header for every single unabridged tour date. Litso 21:20, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

New Table No. 15[edit]

Tour Leg Duration Location
Guns, God and Government Tour

2000/10/27 Minneapolis, MN – 2001/09/02 Hildesheim, Germany

Guns, God and Government North American Tour 2000/10/27 – 2001/01/13 North America
Guns, God and Government Spring European Tour 2001/01/21 – 2001/02/24 Europe
Guns, God and Government Spring Japan Tour 2001/03/11 – 2001/03/20 Japan
Guns, God and Government Ozzfest 2001 Tour 2001/06/08 – 2001/08/12 North America
Guns, God and Government Autumn Japan Tour 2001/08/18 – 2001/08/19 Japan
Guns, God and Government Autumn European Tour 2001/08/22 – 2001/09/02 Europe
Grotesk Burlesk Tour

2003/04/11 Berlin, Germany – 2003/12/27 Auburn Hills, MI

Grotesk Burlesk Spring European Tour 2003/04/11 – 2003/06/21 Europe
Grotesk Burlesk Ozzfest 2003 Tour 2003/06/28 – 2003/08/28 North America
Grotesk Burlesk Australian Tour 2003/09/13 – 2003/09/20 Australia
Grotesk Burlesk Asian Tour 2003/09/24 – 2003/10/04 Japan and Republic of Korea

Litso, what do you think about new version? :) --M1shael 15:38, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, you solved one thing. Nice job. I still wonder what it'll look like if we add all legs. Visually it's a lot more compelling, that's a fact, but it's just going to be such an enormous list. Then again, maybe that's not so bad Litso 16:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Full Version[edit]

Tour Leg Duration Location
Marilyn Manson's Early Touring

1990/04/28 Miami, FL – 1996/02/04 Stuart, FL

Marilyn Manson's independent touring 1990/04/28 – 1994/06/04 North America
Self Destruct 1994/04/24 – 1994/12/11 North America
Portrait of an American Family 1994/12/27 – 1995/03/11 North America
Support for Danzig's Danzig 4p Tour 1995/03/24 – 1995/05/14 North America
Smells Like Children 1995/06/01 – 1996/02/04 North America
Dead to the World Tour

1996/09/05 New York City, NY – 1997/09/16 Mexico City, Mexico

Dead to the World Theater Tour 1996/09/05 – 1996/12/15 North America
Dead to the World North American Tour 1996/12/27 – 1997/03/04 North America
Dead to the World Japan/Oceania Tour 1997/03/07 – 1997/03/22 Japan, Australia, North America
Dead to the World Arena Tour 1997/04/05 – 1997/05/11 North America
Dead to the World European Festival Tour 1997/05/17 – 1997/06/04 Europe
Dead to the World Ozzfest 1997 Tour 1997/06/13 – 1997/08/02 North America
Dead to the World Canadian Tour 1997/07/23 – 1997/08/02 North America
Dead to the World European/South American Tour 1997/08/09 – 1997/09/16 Europe, South America
Mechanical Animals Tour

1998/10/25 Lawrence, KS – 1999/01/31 Perth, Australia

Mechanical Animals European Festival Tour (Cancelled) 1998/06/25 – 1998/07/12 Europe
Mechanical Animals World Tour 1998/10/25 – 1999/01/12 North America, Europe, Japan
Mechanical Animals Big Day Out Festival Tour 1999/01/15 – 1999/01/31 Australia
Rock Is Dead Tour

1999/02/28 Spokane, WA – 1999/08/08 Fuji-Yoshida, Japan

Support for Hole's Beautiful Monsters Tour 1999/02/28 – 1999/03/14 North America
Rock Is Dead Tour: North American Festival Leg 1999/03/17 – 1999/05/07 North America
Rock Is Dead Tour: European/Japan Festival Leg 1999/06/18 – 1999/08/08 Europe, Japan
Guns, God and Government Tour

2000/10/27 Minneapolis, MN – 2001/09/02 Hildesheim, Germany

Guns, God and Government North American Tour 2000/10/27 – 2001/01/13 North America
Guns, God and Government Spring European Tour 2001/01/21 – 2001/02/24 Europe
Guns, God and Government Spring Japan Tour 2001/03/11 – 2001/03/20 Japan
Guns, God and Government Ozzfest 2001 Tour 2001/06/08 – 2001/08/12 North America
Guns, God and Government Autumn Japan Tour 2001/08/18 – 2001/08/19 Japan
Guns, God and Government Autumn European Tour 2001/08/22 – 2001/09/02 Europe
Grotesk Burlesk|Grotesk Burlesk Tour

2003/04/11 Berlin, Germany – 2003/12/27 Auburn Hills, MI

Grotesk Burlesk Spring European Tour 2003/04/11 – 2003/06/21 Europe
Grotesk Burlesk Ozzfest 2003 Tour 2003/06/28 – 2003/08/28 North America
Grotesk Burlesk Australian Tour 2003/09/13 – 2003/09/20 Australia
Grotesk Burlesk Asian Tour 2003/09/24 – 2003/10/04 Japan and Republic of Korea
Grotesk Burlesk Autumn North American Tour 2003/10/10 – 2003/11/01 North America
Grotesk Burlesk Mexican Tour 2003/11/05 – 2003/11/07 North America
Grotesk Burlesk Autumn European Tour 2003/11/19 – 2003/12/19 Europe
Grotesk Burlesk Winter North American Tour 2003/12/27 – 2004/01/03 North America
Against All Gods Tour

2004/10/27 Las Vegas, NV – 2005/08/31 Dublin, Ireland

Against All Gods North American Tour 2004/10/27 – 2004/12/20 North America
Against All Gods Asian Tour 2005/01/29 – 2005/02/06 Japan and Republic of Korea
Against All Gods Mexican Tour 2005/02/09 North America
Against All Gods European Tour 2005/05/27 – 2005/08/31 Europe
Rape of the World Tour

2007/05/26 Landgraaf, Netherlands – 2008/03/02 Houston, TX

Rape of the World Summer European Tour 2007/05/26 – 2007/07/07 Europe
Rape of the World Summer North American Tour 2007/07/25 – 2007/09/01 North America
Rape of the World South American Tour 2007/09/18 – 2007/09/30 South America
Rape of the World Oceania Tour 2007/10/03 – 2007/10/13 Australia, New Zeland
Rape of the World Japan Tour 2007/10/16 – 2007/10/23 Japan
Rape of the World Winter European Tour 2007/11/10 – 2007/12/22 Europe
Rape of the World Winter North American Tour 2008/01/19 – 2008/03/02 North America
The High End of Low Tour

2009/06/03 Brno, Czech Republic – 2009/12/21 Paris, France

The High End of Low European Festival Tour 2009/06/03 – 2009/07/04 Europe
The High End of Low Rockstar Mayhem Fest Tour 2009/07/10 – 2009/08/15 North America
The High End of Low North American Tour 2009/08/21 – 2009/09/26 North America
The High End of Low Tour: Australian Leg 2009/10/05 – 2009/10/17 Australia
The High End of Low Tour: Asian Leg 2009/10/20 – 2009/10/24 Japan
The High End of Low Tour: European Leg 2009/11/11 – 2009/12/21 Europe
The High End of Low Tour: Winter North American Leg (Cancelled) 2010/02/26 North America

I've done full version of this shit. Yeah, it's looks so big, but i think that this version really better than the current version. :D --M1shael 09:17, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Nice work! Let's go :)Litso 11:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Summary tracklisting[edit]

What do you think about summary tracklisting of played songs for each tour? For example I compile a list for Rape of the World tour:

Litso, what do you think? --M1shael 18:53, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
  1. "Trio No. 2 in E-Flat Major for Piano, Violin, and Violoncello" (Intro)
  2. "Cruci-Fiction in Space"
  3. "Disposable Teens"
  4. "You and Me and the Devil Makes 3"
  5. "Irresponsible Hate Anthem"
  6. "Great Big White World"
  7. "Are You the Rabbit?"
  8. "mOBSCENE"
  9. "Mechanical Animals"
  10. "If I Was Your Vampire"
  11. "Heart-Shaped Glasses (When the Heart Guides the Hand)"
  12. "The Love Song"
  13. "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" / "Lunchbox" (Medley)
  14. "Rock 'n' Roll Nigger"
  15. "Tourniquet"
  16. "Little Horn"
  17. "The Fight Song"
  18. "Putting Holes in Happiness"
  19. "Just a Car Crash Away"
  20. "Tainted Love"
  21. "Happiness Is a Warm Gun"
  22. "The Dope Show"
  23. "Rock Is Dead"
  24. "Coma White" / "Coma Black"
  25. "Track 99"
  26. "The Reflecting God"
  27. "The Beautiful People" (With "Baby You're a Rich Man" intro)
  28. "Antichrist Superstar"
  29. "1996"
  30. "The Nobodies"
  31. "This Is Halloween"
  32. "EAT ME, DRINK ME"
  33. "Trio No. 2 in E-Flat Major for Piano, Violin, and Violoncello" (Outro)




* By the way, I like this idea m1shael [god]speed 22:44, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

YouTube Idea[edit]

I was wondering and perhaps this should be a vote rather than a suggestion, but what if we were to compile a youtube video for each tour date, only really good footage and just a single song or so, we don't want to flood the tour articles however, I think that most people that check on previous tour dates more than likely went to the show and are looking to remember it, (checking the setlist etc.) and a single video when clicked would direct them to more related videos from the show on youtube.


I just figure that it might give us something to do, while there isn't anything major happening at the moment. Just an idea. [god]speed 22:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm game and I have quite a few good HD videos that I could put up as well. NickSixx 00:46, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm up for it :) Dave too lazy to login
I thought it would be something you guys might like, though I'd like to hear what some of the other users thinks before we decide to start.

If we do decide to incorporate youtube video(s) into the tour section, I'd really like to keep them down to a minimum and high quality. We definitely don't want to clutter up the tour dates with tons of videos, but I do think that it is important and would add more to each of those articles than simply the setlist. We'll see what everyone else thinks first. [god]speed 09:14, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

obviously the videos which are going to be best quality are the ones from Dead to the world and GGG tour videos, but there are alot more we can get, i think and i was wondering if we we're going to put videos in from orphaned performances, liek when Mansons and NIN did starfuckers and beautifull people and when manson was on lettterman doing personal jesus? Dave too lazy again
A lot of my THEOL tour videos are in HD. NickSixx 15:03, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I like this idea, so it's a yes from me. However I think we should limit to one, maybe two quality videos for each performance. I also suggest starting with most recent performances so that there is some order to this. When I say quality, I mean QUALITY though. ‡-me-‡ 08:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiwkkVQJ2jE , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMoYbpRO_Zs and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8_jK8Gf8BQ are examples of my best videos. NickSixx 20:08, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

New border for tour legs[edit]

Date City Country

Venue

June 3, 2009 Flag-cz.png
 Brno Czech Republic Velodrom
June 5, 2009 Flag-de.png Nürburgring Germany Rock Am Ring
June 6, 2009 Flag-de.png Nürnberg Germany Rock Im Park
June 8, 2009 Flag-at.png Innsbruck Austria Olympiahalle


Date/Location Venue
2009/06/03 Brno, Czech Republic Velodrom
2009/06/05 Nürburgring, Germany Rock Am Ring
2009/06/06 Nürnberg, Germany Rock Im Park
2009/06/08 Innsbruck, Austria Olympiahalle

What do you think about this? --M1shael 14:25, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


DUDE!!, thats awsome, especialy with the flags, top job man, :) Dave, too lazy to login again

Thanks. :D --M1shael 15:05, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Looking good! Hold on until the new design though, we're going to need different colors then. Also I'm looking for a way to use .css files for the styles and colors of the templates and tables (e.g. one rule like #tourtable.td { align: center } in stead of align="center" in every cell) so until we have that let's just wait a little before implementing new stuff :) Litso 15:00, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok. :) --M1shael 15:05, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Well done, M1shael. Anyway, I have two notes: 1) it's better if country and flags columns are joined (also the country column has higher priority than the city column, so they should be swapped); 2) does the wiki engine support conditional templates? if yes, then a simple constructional template like {{countryflag:DE}} could be expanded to "Flag-de.png Germany" eliminating the redundant specifying of the countries names and flags (that's able to cause mistakes). If you're familiar with conditional templates, sure. :) (scarshock 16:51, 8 May 2010 (UTC))

I've found it myself. Look, it's a switch construction that might be included to the Template:Country. The template (not exact syntax): 

   <includeonly>
   {{#switch: {{{Domain|}}}
    | AT = [[Image:Flag-at.png|20px]] Austria
    | CZ = [[Image:Flag-cz.png|20px]] Czech Republic
    | DE = [[Image:Image:Flag-de.png|20px]] Germany
    | ... 
    | <i>unknown country</i>
   }}
   <noinclude></noinclude>

Usage: 

   {{Country
   | Domain = DE
   }}

I hope it would be rendered into a block with inline flow (in CSS terms). (scarshock 17:16, 8 May 2010 (UTC))

A minified version with sortable Date and Location columns, shorter and cleaner markup, the Country template is used too:

Date Location Venue
2009/06/03 Flag-cz.png, Brno Velodrom
2009/06/05 Flag-de.png, Nürburgring Rock Am Ring
2009/06/06 Flag-de.png, Nürnberg Rock Im Park
2009/06/08 Flag-at.png, Innsbruck Olympiahalle

(scarshock 14:47, 11 May 2010 (UTC))


Date City Country Venue
1 2009/06/03 Flag-cz.png Brno Czech Republic Velodrom
2 2009/06/05 Flag-de.png Nurburgring Germany Rock Am Ring
3 2009/06/06 Flag-de.png Nurnberg Germany Rock Im Park
4 2009/06/08 Flag-at.png Innsbruck Austria Olympiahalle

Here is the version with numbers. --M1shael 15:30, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Ginger's tour with Zombie[edit]

I want to create the performance pages of Zombie's tour where Ginger was as drummer. What do you think? --M1shael 14:37, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi. :) I disagree since it has no relation to Manson, but I guess the trivia section could be expanded with that info on Fish's page. (scarshock 17:02, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
Hi!! Yeah, but currently Rob Zombie have 40% of MM's members. :D We can post an article with the photo and video materials, setlists. It would be really cool if Jen and Aaron will speak with Ginger about this tour and post it to that article. --M1shael 17:21, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Hey cruel world/ thirteenth tour[edit]

Shouldn't [[Thirteenth tour: Asian Leg]] now be changed to [[Hey Cruel World Tour: Asian Leg]] and so on since the name of the tour has now been announced? I would change it myself but the whole thing is locked. Apokalypsos 21:24, 23 February 2012 (CET)


Needed editions[edit]

Since I don't have permission to edit this page, here are two needed editions:

  • this is obviously wrong, it is not "north america": | The Hell Not Hallelujah Tour: Autumn European Leg | 2015/11/05 - 2015/11/23 | North America |
  • a link to the 2017 tour page is missing

-- MindBoosterNoori (talk) 18:21, 12 December 2016 (CET)

done. the "TBA"s labels don't look good, but let them be there -- scarshock (talk) 19:17, 12 December 2016 (CET)

Pogo says it's clearly inaccurate[edit]

screenshot Some dumb f*** from messenger sent me this I don't know who... however it is clearly inaccurate scarshock (talk) 17:28, 18 April 2017 (CEST)

Budapest show in 'Heaven Upside Down Tour' table[edit]

The 'Heaven Upside Down Tour' table is showing an "orphan" Budapest show that shouldn't be there, since it is already in the "European Summer Tour Leg" page. -- MindBoosterNoori (talk) 16:30, 19 July 2017 (CEST)

not an orphan, it's just confusing: this is just the very first tour tour date scarshock (talk) 16:55, 19 July 2017 (CEST)
i think i'll remote it -- it's confusing anyway and just duplicates dates below scarshock (talk) 17:38, 19 July 2017 (CEST)
done Special:Diff/99853/99876 scarshock (talk) 17:44, 19 July 2017 (CEST)

Spanish title capitalization[edit]

regarding this change. i think it should be not capitalized. what i found so far: 

 Capitalized in neither English nor Spanish
 
 You’ll notice that neither English nor Spanish capitalizes the articles below. This applies to titles as well.
 
 * el/la (the)
 * un/una (a/an)
 * de (of)
 * por/para (by/for)

"Spanish capitalization rules that differ from English". Lingoda. 2023-09-08. https://www.lingoda.com/blog/en/spanish-capitalization-rules/. Retrieved 2024-09-23.  


 Se escriben con mayúscula la primera palabra del título
 de cualquier obra de creación (libros, películas, cuadros,
 esculturas, piezas musicales, programas de radio o televisión, etc.);
 el resto de las palabras que lo componen, salvo que se trate de
 nombres propios, deben escribirse con minúscula: Últimas tardes con Teresa,
 La vida es sueño, La lección de anatomía, El galo moribundo,
 Las cuatro estaciones, Las mañanas de la radio, Informe semanal.
 En el caso de los títulos abreviados con que se conocen comúnmente
 determinados textos literarios, el artículo que los acompaña debe
 escribirse con minúscula: el Quijote, el Lazarillo, la Celestina.

"¿Existe una regla para el uso de mayúsculas en títulos?". Spanish Language Stack Exchange. 2014-05-12. https://spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/5678/existe-una-regla-para-el-uso-de-may%c3%basculas-en-t%c3%adtulos/5680#5680. Retrieved 2024-09-23. 

from the translation provided by Google Translate it looks like titles always start with a capital letter (with a few exceptions like el Quijote), and all the rest words start with lower-case except proper nouns. i'm not sure whether a festival name is considered a title in this context and whether it has to obey the capitalization rules described above. if yes, then it has to be "Vivo X el rock festival": "Vivo" is the first word hence capitalized; "X" is most likely a part of the proper noun title hence capitalized as well. perhaps it must translate to English like "Vivo X the Rock Festival" ("el" is "the", capitalized in English since it's a title) and it sounds good to me. however, i don't know if there are any rules for capitalization of foreign titles to English even if the title is not translated. so if all above make sense, then we seem to have three options:

  • Vivo X el rock festival (Spanish only)
  • Vivo X el Rock Festival (Spanish but capitalized according to the English (Chicago Manual) capitalization style)
  • Vivo X the Rock Festival (merely translated to English with regular capitalization style)

nothing (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I confess I'm not very aware of the Chicago Manual capitalization style, and also I am not actually too invested in this topic (even if I did that the edit that raised this issue. That is to say, whatever you decide, I'm fine with it. That said, it seems to me that "vivo x el rock festival" (no matter how it ends up capitalized) is meant to be a proper noun in its entirety, it is the name of the festival. Just like we don't translate the name of other festivals or venues, it would be weird (I'd dare say wrong) for us to translate this one (changing 'el' to 'the'). Likewise, it seems stange to me that we are trying to decide how this proper name is capitalized: just like we weren't the ones deciding how to capitalize "VIVA Comet Awards" or "MADtv", in this festival I feel we should just use the official name, capitalized as -they- do it. I checked their official facebook, they used 'El', I copied. But now, frustratingly, they updated their facebook page and call themselves "VIVO X El ROCK" there (El, but the rest all caps!), and their domain name redirects to the facebook page... but they also are at https://beacons.ai/vivoxelrock and there they call themselves "Vivo x el Rock" (notice the non-caps X?), while on Instagram they use "VIVO X EL ROCK" (even the L in caps), TikTok has "Vivo X El Rock" and, at this point, well... my theory about "this is a a proper noun so let's keep its original/official capitalization" sort of goes down the drain.
tldr? Well, I think that we should use the official proper nouns as they are, including in capitalization, as a general rule. For this particular instance, where the event organizers themselves don't seem to have a definitive idea of how to write it, we should use one of the many used variants, no matter which. What we should not do is make up a way to capitalize it, treat it as a common noun, and specially not translate part of it.
Extra: The Spanish wikipedia calls it "Vivo × el Rock" (it's not an x!), and following the historic links, it really used to be named like that in older editions.
MindBoosterNoori (talk) 22:37, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
what i see from their beacons.ai page, they don't really have the common style and convention at all. it's crazy from the wiki perspective:
* VIVO X EL ROCK - the official poster
* Vivo x el Rock - beacons.ai
* Vivo X El Rock - TikTok
* Festival VIVO X El ROCK - Instagram
* Festival "VIVO X El ROCK" - Facebook
but what i really like is that you found the festival page at the Spanish Wikipedia, and it really uses the multiplication sign × in title! this makes me think that Vivo × el Rock is really the only correct spelling but i don't have a solid proof for it. interestingly, they don't have consensus in the page either: the page uses × in the title, infobox, some text at the beginning, and the resume tables (at least in the latest version); but they use x in the headers (as well as the referenced articles do which may indicate the articles may simplify symbols/signs to lookalike letters just like the X is). the edit history of the page seems not to have page rename/move, however the person who created the page (and eventually titled 10 years ago) didn't have consensus as well. i assume that nobody, including the festival stakeholders who definitively must have seen the page, has renamed the page
i would like to adopt the Vivo × el Rock spelling in general, and indicate the festival with the Vivo × el Rock festival in the infobox and tables (the latter is festival because the proper name at the Wikipedia doesn't include it) so that we wouldn't have ambiguous festivals and venues. what do you think? nothing (talk) 05:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
seems the most reasonable option, to me - MindBoosterNoori (talk) 05:36, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
they seem to have consensus: Vivo x el Rock redirects to Vivo × el Rock nothing (talk) 05:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

upcoming "orphan" shows[edit]

According to Media:526744448 18520724314018988 5474484469001101557 n.jpg the three upcoming shows marked here as orphan are actually part of the OAUG1 tour... even if they don't fit in any of the legs. MindBoosterNoori (talk) 08:51, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

which tour dates need to be reconsidered? nothing (talk) 09:33, 7 August 2025 (UTC)
these are the shows showing on that poster as being part of the tour, but we're currently listing as orphan:
# Date City Location Venue
1 2025/09/03 Istanbul, Turkey Instanbul Turkey Flag-tr.png The Unforbidden Festival
2 2025/09/06 Almaty, Kazakhstan Almaty Kazakhstan Flag-kz.png Park Live Almaty
3 2025/12/06 Mexico City, Mexico Mexico City Mexico Flag-mx.png Explanada del Estadio Banorte, Knotfest

MindBoosterNoori (talk) 09:38, 7 August 2025 (UTC)

i'll use TR, KZ, and MX for brevity. i have several options in my mind, but can't choose the most proper one because there are too many pros and cons:
option pros cons
merge TR and KZ to the closest festival leg and rename "... North American Festival ..." to "... World Leg ..." sounds reasonable covering festival dates only than span in a single line there have never been a world tour leg on the wiki. don't know the exact reason, it's more like a rule of thumb maybe from today's perspective
+ what would we do to the MX show that's the only after the European tour leg then?
merge TR, KZ and MX in a single tour leg the same as above the same as above
+ additionally: i'm 99,99% sure tour legs never overlap at least on the wiki
dedicate a new tour leg to combine the TR and KZ shows kind of fine, maybe the "world" leg the same as above
+ it's not really a world tour leg then if only two countries are covered
+ it's not clear how to name the tour leg for combined TR and KZ (a Middle East + Central Asia tour leg? Istanbul is a city in both Europe and Asia, Bonus Parkorman is scheduled to be held in the European part of the city)
dedicate a tour leg per each show, TR, KZ, and MX we had it once if i'm not mistaken, for a special show: Guns, God and Government Tour L.A. Finale clearly an overkill
i personally don't see significance for any show in this regards
i can't pick any as the best nothing (talk) 10:16, 7 August 2025 (UTC)
maybe another option is to have legless shows. I mean, just like there are orphan shows in the tours page, the tour page (OAUG) in this case could have not only tour legs but also shows that are part of the tour but don't belong in any leg? MindBoosterNoori (talk) 10:30, 7 August 2025 (UTC)
yes, i had that option in my mind as well. what i don't really like about it is that i can't really see a semantical importance (sorry can't pick a good word) for having a single show over a tour leg, that would also make tour dates and tour legs pages kind of un-unified. let's experiment:
Tour Leg Time Span
One Assassination Under God Tour: North American Spring Tour Leg 2025/05/02 – 2025/05/25
One Assassination Under God Tour: North American Summer Festival Tour Leg 2025/07/17 – 2025/08/29
2025/09/03 Istanbul, Turkey Instanbul Turkey Flag-tr.png The Unforbidden Festival
2025/09/06 Almaty, Kazakhstan Almaty Kazakhstan Flag-kz.png Park Live Almaty
One Assassination Under God Tour: North American Autumn Tour Leg 2025/09/16 – 2025/10/05
One Assassination Under God Tour: European Tour Leg 2025/10/29 – 2025/11/30
2025/12/06 Mexico City, Mexico Mexico City Mexico Flag-mx.png Explanada del Estadio Banorte, Knotfest
not nice yet by default and also needs unifying both styles of tables (if merged in one for chronological consistency) nothing (talk) 10:49, 7 August 2025 (UTC)
maybe separate tables? something like this (I'm imagining this in the "Tour dates" section of the tour page):

This tour had the following tour legs:

Tour Leg Time Span
One Assassination Under God Tour: North American Spring Tour Leg 2025/05/02 – 2025/05/25
One Assassination Under God Tour: North American Summer Festival Tour Leg 2025/07/17 – 2025/08/29
One Assassination Under God Tour: North American Autumn Tour Leg 2025/09/16 – 2025/10/05
One Assassination Under God Tour: European Tour Leg 2025/10/29 – 2025/11/30

There were also the following separate shows:

# Date City Location Venue
1 2025/09/03 Istanbul, Turkey Instanbul Turkey Flag-tr.png The Unforbidden Festival
2 2025/09/06 Almaty, Kazakhstan Almaty Kazakhstan Flag-kz.png Park Live Almaty
3 2025/12/06 Mexico City, Mexico Mexico City Mexico Flag-mx.png Explanada del Estadio Banorte, Knotfest
This approach could also be used to tackle single-show "legs" like Guns, God and Government Tour L.A. Finale or Against All Gods Tour: Mexican Leg (which, as you point out, were single shows and not a tour leg in any meaningful sense).
Despite this, for the OAUG tour, I think the option I like more is to add these shows in the currently named "North American Festival Tour Leg", which could be renamed to "Festival Tour Leg" - these are festival shows too, after all, and the only "problem" with this approach would be that this leg would be overlapping others time-wise. You said you think "tour legs never overlap at least on the wiki", but I think that if there were even tours in parallel (The End Times Tour in the middle of The Hell Not Hallelujah Tour, or Twins of Evil: The Second Coming Tour starting before Heaven Upside Down Tour ended), why not the same for legs? MindBoosterNoori (talk) 11:37, 7 August 2025 (UTC)
i was not aware of Against All Gods Tour: Mexican Leg, and just quickly found The High End of Low Tour: North American Winter Leg with a single show too. if so, then i belileve the best option we can agree is
- creating the ... European Festival Tour Leg for TR (European - as we mostly, but as i see now not always, keep "bigger" regions)
- creating the ... Central Asian Festival Tour Leg for KZ (the same goes for Central Asian)
- creating the ... North American Festival Tour Leg for MX (uncertain maybe it will turn into Winter North American tour leg in the future)
that being said, we would have: 1) everything really unified and consistent with the convention established for all old tours and legs we already have; 2) keep the proper chronological order of the legs in the table
if you agree, please tell
i've just searched around a little and found that we have oddities like:
- Dead to the World Tour: Japan/Oceania Leg mixing Japan and Australia (no clue if thie leg was officially anounced)
- Grotesk Burlesk Tour: Asian Leg mixing multiple Japan shows and one in South Korea however Japan is known for multiple shows in row so we have Japan tour legs
- kind of oddity for Against All Gods Tour: Mexican Leg with a single show in Mexico -- i do believe this is a special case like that in order not to word both legs like 2004 North American and 2005 North American legs (i mean years in titles that are uncommon before 2024)
- kind of oddity for Hey, Cruel World... Tour: Mexican Leg with two shows -- i do believe named Mexican in order not to clash with Hey, Cruel World... Tour: North American Leg that was held in 2012 as well
- kind of oddity Heaven Upside Down Tour: Mexican Tour Leg -- one show, the same reason: clashing with Heaven Upside Down Tour: North American Winter Tour Leg
- but at the same time, we have 2024/11/30 Guadalupe, Mexico orphaned -- i think this one is fine
i think later i'll consider renaming the old tour legs according to the bigger-regions-style
I honestly don't think there's a "right answer" for this, your proposal seems a good enough approach. MindBoosterNoori (talk) 12:35, 7 August 2025 (UTC)
glad that we've concluded a working approach. please feel free if you're willing to add the new tour leg pages. i appreciate it :) nothing (talk) 13:18, 7 August 2025 (UTC)
seems you did it already, great job! ;-) MindBoosterNoori (talk) 09:45, 8 August 2025 (UTC)

Personal Jesus MADtv[edit]

Currently, the “Orphaned performances” table lists two separate appearances:

2004/10/15 – New York City – MADtv

2004/11/13 – Hollywood, CA – Henry Fonda Theater (MADtv)


This is misleading, because both entries refer to the same performance of “Personal Jesus” on MADtv. The performance was taped on October 15, 2004 in New York City and then aired on November 13, 2004 as part of MADtv Season 10, therefore only the airdate one on 2004/11/13 should exist, just like only the Top of the Pops airings are listed, not the actual tapings themselves.

Sources:

Blabbermouth reported Manson “taped an appearance on MADtv on October 15, 2004,” which “was scheduled to air November 13, 2004.”

Episode guides confirm that Season 10, Episode 6 (airdate November 13, 2004) featured Marilyn Manson performing Personal Jesus.

thanks. i'll merge [[2004/11/13 Hollywood, CA]] into 2004/10/15 New York City, NY as the latter is the actual performance date. still, we need to fix the Top of the Pops dates once we know the dates the performances were taped on nothing (talk) 07:41, 16 September 2025 (UTC)
done nothing (talk) 07:51, 16 September 2025 (UTC)

Disposable Teens Top of the Pops[edit]

I'll start off with one of the Top of the Pops then. It's a little hard to understand given the date of the article, but after reading the entire thing, it appears the date it was taped was Oct. 12th 2000. The air date we have listed says Nov 9th 2000, but after going through countless airdates of the show, it appears there were only Nov 3rd, Nov 10th and Nov 17th airings, so I would probably go with the 10th for air, since a 9th doesn't even exist. Here is the link:

https://www.nme.com/news/music/marilyn-manson-215-1399184

thank you! November 10 looks like the exact date to me according to the "every 7th day" pattern + Wikipedia: TOTP was traditionally shown on a Thursday night, but was moved to a Friday starting on 14 June 1996,[66] originally at 7 pm, ..." nothing (talk) 08:38, 19 September 2025 (UTC)

Shooter Jennings date[edit]

  1. 62 and #54 in the orphaned performance list are the same. The performance with Shooter Jennings took place Dec 21st at Loaded and can be corroborated with the following links:

https://kfmx.com/marilyn-manson-and-shooter-jennings-on-stage-together-video/

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ISNwCxUpDEY

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9QQFBWSs3R4

The article reporting the performance is dated the 23rd, the video itself is time stamped the 23rd and the final youtube link provides the 21st date as when it took place and the venue Loaded, which matches up with #54 on the list dated 12/21/2013 @ Loaded. Propose #62 is deleted and becomes #54.

moved the #62 201x/12/xx Sons of Anarchy Christmas Party page to #54 2013/12/21 Los Angeles, CA. thank you! nothing (talk) 10:20, 25 September 2025 (UTC)

Missing Personal Jesus CD:UK Performance[edit]

There were 6 total televised performances of Personal Jesus. It proved quite difficult to track down the date of the CD:UK one. It was Oct. 2nd 2004. I had the IMDB reference, but I wanted at least one more for confirmation. On the link to the site historic films provided with the Oct 2nd date, there is a box in the middle of the page. Under the "log" tab, scroll down to 12:12:13 for the exact time in the show Personal Jesus was performed. All sites including wikipedia confirm the show was always aired live, not taped.


https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0534384/fullcredits/#cast


https://www.historicfilms.com/search/?q=like%3A16771-430552&reel=39769&log=958895&in=2609.67&out=2825.05

added as 2004/10/02 London, England. thank you nothing (talk) 08:29, 26 September 2025 (UTC)

Yoshiki Rooftop Performance[edit]

Unfortunately we do not have confirmation of this exact date or the venue, although a long-time trusted source known to be in contact with Manson has let me know it was August 9th 2020 in private messaging. Therefore, propose ??/??/2020 in orphaned performances, songs, Without You, Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This).

Rehearsal video:

https://m.vk.com/video-237426_456241174

sorry i'm a bit lost, what orphaned tour date are you referring to? nothing (talk) 17:59, 28 September 2025 (UTC)
The original "Under the Sky" special before it was canceled due to Covid and later removed Manson altogether. The original trailer (which is now private) aired Nov. 20th 2020 with an airdate for Dec 23rd, so the performance had to have taken place before November 20th.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/19QrZQAusV/
added it as 2020/08/09 Los Angeles, CA. please feel free to contribute to the page. thank you nothing (talk) 09:09, 29 September 2025 (UTC)
Thank you, please link it directly in orphaned performances as it is not an active link from that page as of right now. Also, please delete 71 as someone attempted to make the same listing there.
yes, i forgot to link the page, fixed. regarding the #71 entry, it's another date, please see Special:Diff/128068 nothing (talk) 17:48, 29 September 2025 (UTC)

Oh I have that one too. It was on his birthday Jan. 5th 2020. It was posted on Erin Skold's Instagram, but you have to follow them to see it. I'll include that link and a Reddit one that includes that link in the comments that anyone can see.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6-QT8MFNdO/

https://www.reddit.com/r/marilyn_manson/comments/eks6m0/tim_manson_doing_a_little_tainted_love_karaoke_at/

the ig post is private. is it known where this took place? we at least need the city so that way we could add it to the title of the new page nothing (talk) 20:35, 29 September 2025 (UTC)
I'm not sure if it was ever made public. We could just leave it as a stub, similar to his birthday performance on #65.
great idea! i'll move it to [[2020/01/05 Marilyn Manson Birthday Party]]. thank you! nothing (talk) 07:34, 30 September 2025 (UTC)
Nevermind I just got it. She accepted my follow request. It says right on the post "The Parlour Room of Hollywood", which is in Los Angeles.
done nothing (talk) 08:24, 1 October 2025 (UTC)

An Evening With Marilyn Manson[edit]

Shouldn't we consider these ACSSS anniversary shows as a mini-tour, instead of orphan? MindBoosterNoori (talk) 18:05, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

perhaps would be later merged in the latest on that time tour, still no much info nothing (talk) 07:13, 13 March 2026 (UTC)

Orphaned performances[edit]

  1. 82 is out of order. It needs to be #78. Also, I would question this being considered a "performance".
the order is correct, i believe. regarding the whether this should be considered a performance: yes, with a large stretch, but it's the closest thing we have, considering that even karaoke performances at, presumably, private parties are listed here nothing (talk) 08:49, 13 March 2026 (UTC)
Yes, the order is correct. Regarding the performance aspect of it, I don't believe we have ever included a directed, produced and edited clip as a performance. This is very similar to the Overneath (The Path Of Misery) or Show Studios spoken word videos where he is simply reciting lyrics for a fully edited and produced video, not performing to an actual audience. Even the reading of The Proverbs Of Hell, where there was an audience, isn't listed under performances, nor is the Donda 2 event where he is mouthing the words without a microphone.
i'm open to suggestions on how all of these should be organized. let's discuss. nothing (talk) 09:33, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

Dave Stewart Orphaned Performance[edit]

Not sure how this was missed.

Sep 12th 2013 at the Troubadour West Hollywood, Manson performed Sweet Dreams with Dave Stewart & Friends (as the group is commonly called). Orianthi was one of the notable guitarists. This should be #55 on the orphaned list.

https://www.gettyimages.ae/detail/news-photo/marilyn-manson-sings-sweet-dreamsare-made-of-this-w-dave-news-photo/523963182

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHTPej4tnZg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNwc9kDJyAE

done. please don't hesitate to add any missing information. if anything goes wrong, we can fix it. thank you! nothing (talk) 06:00, 9 April 2026 (UTC)
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