Interview:2026/02/28 Interview with Stephen Bier aka Pogo

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Interview with Stephen Bier aka Pogo
Interview with Madonna Wayne Gacy
Date	February 28, 2026
Source	The Manson Podcast, ep. 15
Interviewer	Alex Sinclair and Jenna Arkansas

This page or section contains speech recognition generated transcription and may be incorrect.

 

Transcription

The transcription below is a WebVTT file generated using OpenAI Whisper.

WEBVTT

00:00.000 --> 00:06.360 Hello, everyone, and thank you for listening to the Manson Podcast, a podcast dedicated

00:06.360 --> 00:08.520 to the icon, Marilyn Manson.

00:08.720 --> 00:10.600 I am your co-host, Alex Sinclair.

00:10.840 --> 00:12.900 And I am your other co-host, Jenna Arkansas.

00:13.280 --> 00:15.120 Welcome to episode 15.

00:15.500 --> 00:21.460 This is a very special episode because we have Stephen Baer, aka Madonna Wayne Gacy,

00:21.640 --> 00:24.740 slash Pogo as a special guest.

00:25.020 --> 00:29.860 We are so honored to have him on the show to discuss his career as a keyboardist slash

00:29.860 --> 00:33.780 synthesis for almost 20 years with Marilyn Manson.

00:33.960 --> 00:38.540 Stephen is an extremely talented musician in his own right, so we are very excited to

00:38.540 --> 00:39.160 speak with him.

00:39.340 --> 00:42.460 We have so much to go over with him, so let's get started.

00:44.200 --> 00:51.680 Okay, guys, we know how excited you are about Pogo being on the show, and we are so excited.

00:51.820 --> 00:54.280 Trust us, we cannot believe that this is happening.

00:54.600 --> 00:56.060 I mean, he does not do interviews.

00:56.060 --> 01:00.400 The last interview he did, he was very upset with because they cut a lot of things out

01:00.400 --> 01:03.220 that he wanted to say positively about Manson.

01:03.460 --> 01:05.380 This is an extraordinary opportunity.

01:05.940 --> 01:10.040 So we are going to get into that, but real fast, there are some very important things that

01:10.040 --> 01:13.460 has happened with Manson since the last time we recorded.

01:13.720 --> 01:18.720 And one of the big things is Tim Scold has rejoined the band, which is huge.

01:19.080 --> 01:20.460 I'm very excited for that.

01:20.460 --> 01:23.200 I think that's a great reunion, in my opinion.

01:23.520 --> 01:27.360 We all understand he is back in the band.

01:27.860 --> 01:30.340 I think there was a lot of confusion.

01:31.940 --> 01:33.760 He is back in.

01:33.960 --> 01:35.180 Yes, he's not going anywhere.

01:35.500 --> 01:37.920 He's there to stay, and that's very exciting.

01:38.040 --> 01:42.200 He's going to start touring with Manson in April and do all the touring for the rest of

01:42.200 --> 01:46.260 the year, and I'm sure for shows to come after this year.

01:46.440 --> 01:48.860 Speaking of tour, I hope I'm pronouncing this right.

01:48.860 --> 01:54.320 A second date at the Yamava Theater in Highland, California, has been added to this tour.

01:54.820 --> 02:00.280 So now tour starts for Marilyn Manson, April 22nd, in Highland, California.

02:00.600 --> 02:02.320 You guys get two shows back to back.

02:02.460 --> 02:08.340 Also, just real fast, because I feel like this is going to tie in very well with Pogo's interview

02:08.340 --> 02:08.780 today.

02:08.940 --> 02:14.180 I was able to go to Churchill's in Miami, which is, as most of you know, the first venue

02:14.180 --> 02:16.480 Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids ever played.

02:16.660 --> 02:18.560 It has a very interesting story.

02:18.560 --> 02:20.180 It's been around since 1979.

02:20.600 --> 02:26.160 It was up and running for a long time, clearly, but it was closed from 2020 to 2025.

02:26.600 --> 02:28.040 They just reopened in September.

02:28.460 --> 02:33.160 Nobody really knows how that place stayed in business while it was closed for so long,

02:33.280 --> 02:37.080 but it's kind of like this weird mystery around it, but it's still alive.

02:37.160 --> 02:37.860 It's still kicking.

02:38.200 --> 02:40.320 It's known as the CBGBs of the South.

02:40.560 --> 02:42.320 It was really cool to see in person.

02:42.320 --> 02:44.700 I can't say enough good things about it.

02:44.780 --> 02:50.260 And I know that they still do a ton of local shows, and they're a huge part in the Miami

02:50.260 --> 02:51.040 music scene.

02:51.200 --> 02:55.460 Also, when I took the footage, there's a ton of footage on our Instagram if anyone wants

02:55.460 --> 02:56.000 to go see it.

02:56.000 --> 03:00.780 I did send it to Pogo's wife, and I was like, can you ask Stephen if he remembers Churchill's?

03:01.200 --> 03:03.000 And she was like, oh my God, of course he does.

03:03.500 --> 03:08.600 And then he, I think, saw some of the footage that I took, and he said that he was at that

03:08.600 --> 03:14.380 first show with Manson and the Spooky Kids, but he wasn't in the band yet because he was

03:14.380 --> 03:15.620 saving up for a keyboard.

03:15.620 --> 03:18.660 But he was doing the lights.

03:19.000 --> 03:21.060 That's a very Pogo thing to be doing.

03:22.680 --> 03:24.720 I'm sure people know the picture I'm talking about.

03:24.860 --> 03:29.420 The first picture is of Manson in like a Paisley shirt, and Scott's in a bright pink shirt.

03:29.680 --> 03:31.280 I mean, the stage is the same.

03:31.740 --> 03:35.760 It was really cool to see if anybody wants to take a little trip down there and see it

03:35.760 --> 03:36.340 for themselves.

03:36.560 --> 03:39.860 For some Marilyn Manson history, I definitely recommend it.

03:40.000 --> 03:44.200 Anybody in the Miami area, y'all go see your roots of Marilyn Manson there.

03:44.200 --> 03:45.740 They have so many events.

03:45.880 --> 03:47.500 They have something going on almost every night.

03:47.560 --> 03:48.240 It's pretty crazy.

03:48.540 --> 03:51.460 They're very, very, very active in the scene, which is good to see.

03:52.100 --> 03:56.840 Let's just give you guys some facts about Stephen Bear, also known as Madonna Wayne Gacy

03:56.840 --> 03:57.960 slash Pogo.

03:58.360 --> 04:02.100 He was born in Fort Lauderdale, March 6th, 1964.

04:02.660 --> 04:06.040 He was a very early member of Marilyn Manson and the Spooky Kids.

04:06.160 --> 04:10.860 He actually replaced Zsa Zsa Speck, who was in there just for a hot minute.

04:11.040 --> 04:12.480 Like he was not in there very long.

04:12.540 --> 04:13.560 A very hot minute.

04:13.560 --> 04:18.680 He is best known for his synthesizer and keyboard work, along with sampling.

04:19.180 --> 04:25.180 He had a key role in their experimental sound, and he was a member from 1989.

04:25.880 --> 04:30.560 The internet says 2007, but the last record he worked on...

04:31.280 --> 04:32.620 Was Golden Age of Grotesque.

04:32.880 --> 04:34.480 Was Golden Age of Grotesque.

04:34.540 --> 04:38.100 So I'm not sure what that means, but that's what it says everywhere.

04:38.220 --> 04:39.560 I mean, obviously we can ask him.

04:39.560 --> 04:43.340 He was in the band for almost 20 years.

04:43.780 --> 04:46.620 So this is going to be huge.

04:46.800 --> 04:48.580 We know how the internet is, everybody.

04:48.980 --> 04:54.940 The internet will always steer you either very clearly or it will steer you very wrong.

04:55.340 --> 04:58.180 And I think that there's some misinformation on there that says...

04:58.180 --> 05:05.540 Apparently people think that there's an entire album that Steven and Manson did together after Golden Age of Grotesque.

05:05.740 --> 05:09.660 People truly believe that there is one somewhere and there's not.

05:09.800 --> 05:13.140 Yes, we had to ask someone very special about that.

05:13.260 --> 05:15.520 And they said that is not true.

05:15.800 --> 05:17.120 Confirmed that is not true.

05:17.360 --> 05:18.420 Let's be real here.

05:18.580 --> 05:20.600 Like I said, I love learning new things.

05:21.600 --> 05:26.280 I feel like I learn something new every episode, and it's very unexpected when I learn.

05:26.440 --> 05:28.720 So I was like, damn, is this true?

05:28.860 --> 05:31.400 Because if it's true, then where is this album at?

05:31.460 --> 05:32.740 Or, you know, what happened to it?

05:32.760 --> 05:33.820 But it's not true, guys.

05:34.000 --> 05:36.440 Okay, guys, so we're going to get Steven on the phone.

05:36.520 --> 05:37.280 So here we go.

05:39.280 --> 05:41.800 All right, Steven, let's get started.

05:41.980 --> 05:43.740 I mean, we have so much to go over.

05:43.740 --> 05:47.120 We really cannot believe that you agreed to do this.

05:47.160 --> 05:48.320 So thank you so much.

05:48.520 --> 05:49.840 We appreciate it so much.

05:49.960 --> 05:51.740 I asked Marilyn if it was okay with him.

05:51.780 --> 05:53.020 And he was like, yeah, they're cool.

05:53.220 --> 05:53.720 They're great.

05:53.780 --> 05:54.180 I like them.

05:54.320 --> 05:56.680 So I just want to make sure I gave him a heads up, you know?

05:56.720 --> 05:57.000 Absolutely.

05:57.760 --> 06:00.040 We'll be as funny and ridiculous as usual.

06:00.320 --> 06:01.640 You get what you get, you know?

06:01.880 --> 06:06.820 Plus, I'm getting old so I can tabulate or combine memories because I really haven't

06:06.820 --> 06:08.000 thought about them in too long.

06:08.160 --> 06:11.460 So don't take anything I say as historically accurate.

06:11.600 --> 06:12.160 That's perfect.

06:12.160 --> 06:16.880 Okay, so can you take us back to the beginning?

06:17.420 --> 06:19.620 Let's talk about the early days in Florida.

06:19.740 --> 06:21.300 How did you meet Manson?

06:21.840 --> 06:23.080 A good friend of mine named Lauren.

06:23.580 --> 06:24.840 I don't want to use her last name.

06:24.900 --> 06:25.600 I don't want to get her in trouble.

06:26.000 --> 06:29.720 She showed me a lot of the cool places in Florida, like Squeeze and Fire on Ice and stuff.

06:29.960 --> 06:31.060 I just got out of college.

06:31.320 --> 06:35.280 So I was used to a very cool scene up in Gainesville, Florida or Athens, Georgia or whatever.

06:35.660 --> 06:37.180 So I came to Fort Lauderdale.

06:37.380 --> 06:38.000 It sucked.

06:38.000 --> 06:40.600 So she kind of showed me where all the cool places were.

06:40.800 --> 06:44.700 One night we were at Fire on Ice down Miami Beach.

06:44.840 --> 06:47.640 I think, I don't know if it was at the Llano Hotel at that time or whatever.

06:47.640 --> 06:50.940 But I think the band vociferous music was playing.

06:51.020 --> 06:51.520 I don't remember.

06:51.640 --> 06:55.860 But it was like an alternative punk rock, industrial, whatever club.

06:56.360 --> 07:01.620 And so I showed up there like wearing a Pee Wee Herman type suit, a vintage suit with a bow tie.

07:01.820 --> 07:03.820 Because I showed you to a punk club in a suit.

07:03.820 --> 07:06.420 So she introduced me.

07:06.460 --> 07:08.500 She said, yeah, I have this friend of mine.

07:08.840 --> 07:10.560 I've already used the B word, Brian.

07:10.980 --> 07:13.660 But, you know, I think you guys would really get along.

07:13.800 --> 07:15.040 And she introduced the two of us.

07:15.460 --> 07:20.220 And we proceeded to talk about the best ways to commit suicide for the rest of the evening.

07:20.420 --> 07:22.580 That's a good bonding experience.

07:22.580 --> 07:26.160 He was a really good poet and a really good writer.

07:26.720 --> 07:30.900 And so what happened was he took me out to see some shows with bands like Saigon Kick.

07:31.220 --> 07:37.260 I mean, he actually painted the combat boots for them with like all kinds of psychedelic flower power type shit.

07:37.600 --> 07:38.600 I mean, in a good way.

07:39.060 --> 07:41.520 But because he was like a music journalist at the time.

07:41.620 --> 07:45.920 He's all kind of thing for either gym, magazine, or rec, or 25th level.

07:46.060 --> 07:49.660 He worked for all three, but I'm not exactly sure at what time he's working for which.

07:49.660 --> 07:54.720 And anyway, so he kind of helped Saigon Kick look cooler on stage.

07:55.340 --> 07:57.940 And I'm not trying to be dicks to them, just to be honest.

07:58.320 --> 08:00.020 But anyway, so we went and saw the show.

08:00.580 --> 08:01.580 He took me to one.

08:02.000 --> 08:04.920 And I was like, goddamn, fuck, we could do better than this.

08:05.480 --> 08:06.220 I mean, for real.

08:06.260 --> 08:08.060 Because I was kind of spoiled coming from a college town.

08:08.140 --> 08:10.980 There was like a million really good alternative bands.

08:11.400 --> 08:15.400 And it's not like the kind of bunk you got in South Florida, at least at that time.

08:15.720 --> 08:17.920 It kind of led, one thing led to another.

08:17.920 --> 08:21.180 And then he invited me to some of his poetry readings.

08:21.340 --> 08:22.620 And his poetry is really good.

08:23.120 --> 08:30.160 It was the first time I ever heard the use of perfunctory when describing turning blue toilet water into green by pissing into it.

08:30.900 --> 08:33.500 I was like, man, these are fucking songs, bro.

08:33.620 --> 08:34.920 I mean, we could smoke these motherfuckers.

08:35.800 --> 08:36.540 They're not that good.

08:36.620 --> 08:37.740 I mean, not that we're that good.

08:37.860 --> 08:39.740 But they're not that good either.

08:40.000 --> 08:41.500 I mean, they're technically really good musicians.

08:41.500 --> 08:44.380 But I don't think they could tell Cool from Shinola.

08:44.520 --> 08:44.880 You know what I mean?

08:45.160 --> 08:46.580 That sounds really douchey, actually.

08:46.680 --> 08:48.220 Like, I know Cool or something.

08:48.440 --> 08:48.960 I don't.

08:49.120 --> 08:51.000 But I know that this is not cool, what they were doing.

08:51.480 --> 08:54.340 So the scene was just looking pretty weak.

08:54.660 --> 08:57.540 Except for a few people down in Miami, Miami Beach area.

08:58.340 --> 09:00.280 So we would go down there and see the shows and the clubs.

09:00.380 --> 09:05.560 Well, anyways, he started turning his poetry into, you know, song lyrics, which is the only way you can make money from poetry.

09:05.920 --> 09:07.520 And that's not an insult.

09:07.640 --> 09:08.340 That's a compliment.

09:08.760 --> 09:13.340 Because really good, like Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen, you know what I mean?

09:13.360 --> 09:15.840 It's like you're turning your poetry into music.

09:16.060 --> 09:22.560 And it's a way to get much more exposure than being stuck in some beatnik club that people are snapping their fingers when you say something cool.

09:22.560 --> 09:23.160 You know?

09:23.300 --> 09:23.580 Yeah.

09:23.760 --> 09:26.160 It's like some scene out of Happy Days or some shit.

09:26.440 --> 09:27.040 We don't want that.

09:27.500 --> 09:27.720 You know?

09:28.260 --> 09:30.880 Steven, this is, you are so funny.

09:31.180 --> 09:33.760 Well, anyways, so he was doing that.

09:34.060 --> 09:38.260 And so we go around and see these shows and we would hang out.

09:38.420 --> 09:40.240 And we had a lot of, we had a lot of good fun.

09:40.300 --> 09:44.680 Because it was just, we were just looking at it like, God damn, this place just needs a kick in the balls.

09:45.060 --> 09:45.680 You know what I mean?

09:45.820 --> 09:46.080 Right.

09:46.580 --> 09:48.040 It's not that hard to do.

09:48.380 --> 09:51.260 Especially when there's like bands in Florida already slamming it.

09:51.260 --> 09:55.080 Like impotent sea snakes were coming down from Atlanta to do shit in Tampa.

09:55.600 --> 09:57.840 And you had Jenna Torturers and shit.

09:58.280 --> 10:00.920 And you had Gigi Allen in Orlando at that time.

10:01.100 --> 10:04.860 So it was, there was like a really intense scene in certain areas.

10:05.100 --> 10:13.160 And there was really good stuff too down in South Florida, like Miami Beach, like with, you know, Rat Bastard and Bobby Lode and all that kind of shit.

10:13.540 --> 10:15.820 It was one of those things like, well, why not start a fucking band?

10:15.940 --> 10:16.400 You know what I mean?

10:16.840 --> 10:19.180 How, how many chances are you going to get to do that in your life?

10:19.260 --> 10:19.980 You know, just do it.

10:19.980 --> 10:25.000 Why not because you see like, you know, you do something you want to do one and two.

10:25.120 --> 10:30.620 You can see they're like, man, if these guys can do it, I mean, come on, it can't be that fucking hard.

10:31.280 --> 10:31.800 Right.

10:32.060 --> 10:32.440 You know?

10:32.720 --> 10:33.200 Yeah.

10:33.400 --> 10:39.180 Then he met Scott and Scott was a really inventive, creative guitar player.

10:39.180 --> 10:46.140 He had some issues with being like, you know, reading sheet music and music theory and all that kind of bullshit, which is cool.

10:46.400 --> 10:46.900 Which is cool.

10:46.960 --> 10:47.660 I can get that.

10:48.060 --> 10:50.640 But he did have his own distinct taste in music.

10:50.860 --> 10:53.900 And he had a four track recorder, which was very important at the time.

10:53.900 --> 10:55.520 Because we had no way to record shit.

10:55.820 --> 10:57.180 Started down there.

10:57.560 --> 10:58.640 You know, it was Brian.

10:59.080 --> 11:00.740 Sorry, I don't want to use the B word again.

11:00.800 --> 11:01.000 Sorry.

11:01.120 --> 11:01.580 It was Marilyn.

11:02.240 --> 11:03.680 I'm trying to be a dick.

11:04.100 --> 11:08.560 Because I know it's not really appropriate to use the words that people don't want to be called themselves by.

11:08.560 --> 11:13.220 So what inspired you to play the keyboard slash synthesizer?

11:13.340 --> 11:14.180 What we're trying to get to here?

11:14.260 --> 11:14.420 Yeah.

11:14.520 --> 11:17.260 So originally there was Brian Titunik and Perry.

11:17.380 --> 11:18.500 I can't remember his last name.

11:18.860 --> 11:20.020 Perry was playing keyboards.

11:20.240 --> 11:21.220 Titunik was on bass.

11:22.080 --> 11:22.900 Brian was vocal.

11:23.040 --> 11:23.820 Scott was guitar.

11:24.440 --> 11:25.600 So we had a drum machine.

11:25.880 --> 11:30.060 So Brian kind of invited me in to do like, you know, like percussion.

11:30.240 --> 11:31.900 Because I don't have the footwork to be a proper drummer.

11:32.360 --> 11:34.520 I don't have the handwork to be a proper keyboard player.

11:35.640 --> 11:37.220 But I could play like live percussion.

11:37.220 --> 11:42.040 So I could play like timbales and claves and all that kind of shit.

11:42.140 --> 11:43.160 Because, you know, I grew up in South Florida.

11:43.260 --> 11:46.480 The funny part is I had to learn that I used to play at a Catholic folk mass.

11:46.860 --> 11:48.060 And my brother went to Catholic school.

11:48.520 --> 11:53.160 And so we eventually like had to decide if we wanted to be like in the audience or on stage.

11:53.460 --> 11:57.540 It was just better to play music during church or be an altar boy than to be there in the audience.

11:57.840 --> 12:01.460 And I swear being an altar boy gave me my first love of stage presence.

12:01.940 --> 12:02.200 You know?

12:02.440 --> 12:03.220 Oh, okay.

12:03.480 --> 12:03.840 Okay.

12:04.040 --> 12:06.780 Why be out there like, you know, doing all the other...

12:06.780 --> 12:09.000 Well, you can be up there with the priest getting all the attention.

12:09.500 --> 12:09.820 Exactly.

12:10.740 --> 12:11.280 It's fun.

12:11.480 --> 12:14.620 People really want you for their funerals or weddings.

12:14.940 --> 12:15.700 Scratch your butt.

12:15.780 --> 12:16.640 You don't scratch your nose.

12:16.960 --> 12:21.480 You keep perfectly still like you're some Buddhist monk or old school Christian monk.

12:21.540 --> 12:21.840 You know what I mean?

12:22.260 --> 12:24.580 So, and I got a lot of gigs that way.

12:24.660 --> 12:24.980 You know what I mean?

12:25.040 --> 12:25.640 It's an altar boy.

12:25.820 --> 12:29.340 And the best part was I was in Catholic school when I was younger doing that.

12:29.340 --> 12:32.880 And so, we'd have to go to, you know, mass every day of the week plus Sundays.

12:33.300 --> 12:35.020 And as an altar boy, I had to do additional masses.

12:35.560 --> 12:40.500 And the priest would walk you out of class to just do funerals or weddings and stuff.

12:40.840 --> 12:42.400 And so, like, they would always pull me out.

12:43.040 --> 12:44.820 I'm not trying to be self-aggrandizing here.

12:45.020 --> 12:47.080 But they would pull me out because I would cry at funerals.

12:47.080 --> 12:50.780 I would see the people in the audience just so upset about their family.

12:51.360 --> 12:54.120 And then suddenly they're like, the priest's like, get that guy.

12:54.460 --> 12:54.820 You know what I mean?

12:55.400 --> 13:01.140 Because, you know, they want to see that you care as much as they do for, you know, this

13:01.140 --> 13:02.900 person's departure into the world.

13:03.120 --> 13:07.360 And ultimately, a funeral is supposed to be a celebration, even though you might cry.

13:07.440 --> 13:08.480 It's like a wedding, you know?

13:08.540 --> 13:08.840 Right.

13:08.940 --> 13:10.540 It's supposed to be a dark thing.

13:11.000 --> 13:15.100 So, again, I just want to say the Catholic Church for giving my first love of the stage.

13:15.100 --> 13:18.980 Okay, can you tell us what your early musical influences were?

13:19.280 --> 13:21.020 For me, for me, it's one thing.

13:21.120 --> 13:24.320 I just want to get to a certain point here, but in fact, when you were showing me certain

13:24.320 --> 13:27.880 questions people were asking, the thing is that, like, you know, that was the best part

13:27.880 --> 13:33.340 of the band, is that everybody had some similar influences and some very different ones.

13:33.840 --> 13:35.520 And that kind of brought a lot to the table.

13:35.780 --> 13:36.180 Yes.

13:36.560 --> 13:40.740 So, for me, you know, I was all about Big Black and the butthole surfers.

13:40.740 --> 13:43.760 You know, anything that just pisses people off, really.

13:43.760 --> 13:46.660 Just, you know, all that shit that made me look really cool.

13:46.780 --> 13:51.200 Chloe and Zappa and Pink Floyd and the Stooges and just so much shit.

13:51.420 --> 13:53.820 I mean, Ramon and Zappa, just so much stuff.

13:54.160 --> 13:59.960 I might be repeating, but for me, I just really liked what I kind of learned from other stores

13:59.960 --> 14:04.420 when I was up in college in Gainesville in the previous, whatever, six years.

14:04.420 --> 14:11.800 Listen, he was a big fan of, like, you know, Jim Morrison's sort of poetic style of doing

14:11.800 --> 14:12.320 lyrics.

14:12.640 --> 14:12.880 Uh-huh.

14:12.880 --> 14:15.080 And he loved the Pixies.

14:15.180 --> 14:15.900 And who doesn't?

14:15.980 --> 14:16.360 You know what I mean?

14:16.460 --> 14:18.680 Well, those early Pixies albums are godlike.

14:18.880 --> 14:21.240 He had an amazing sense of taste for music.

14:21.580 --> 14:22.300 It's certainly Daisy.

14:22.660 --> 14:25.020 Daisy, his stuff was really...

14:25.020 --> 14:27.360 He loved, I don't know, like, Cocteau Twins.

14:27.440 --> 14:28.400 That was his favorite shit.

14:28.740 --> 14:32.220 He had, like, on the head of his Yamaha guitar, the word Guthrie.

14:32.540 --> 14:35.880 And then we thought that he was referring to, like, Woody Guthrie or Arlo Guthrie,

14:35.880 --> 14:40.160 like, the famous folk, you know, American classical guys.

14:40.420 --> 14:42.900 And no, we're talking about Guthrie from Cocteau Twins.

14:43.200 --> 14:44.860 So he had his own thing.

14:45.120 --> 14:48.060 And he was, you know, went to, I think, Art Institute.

14:48.560 --> 14:51.180 And so he had his own, like, arty farty stuff.

14:51.240 --> 14:51.840 In a good way.

14:51.940 --> 14:52.260 I don't...

14:52.260 --> 14:53.360 I mean, sorry, he's arty farty.

14:53.520 --> 14:54.620 But I mean, like, in a good way.

14:54.780 --> 14:58.760 I mean, he and I used to listen to all kinds of stuff that was completely not in a genre

14:58.760 --> 15:01.380 out of the way of what you should do.

15:01.380 --> 15:05.860 But I think as any musician, you want to listen to as many different kinds of music

15:05.880 --> 15:09.840 as you can, because you can always learn something, whether it's what to do or what

15:09.840 --> 15:10.860 not to do, you know?

15:11.000 --> 15:12.000 That was a good thing.

15:12.380 --> 15:16.600 So originally, there was, on the first shows, there was Manson and Daisy.

15:17.180 --> 15:22.480 And then there was Olivia Newton-Bundy, that was Brian Titunik.

15:22.820 --> 15:25.920 And then I think Shaja Speck, that was Perry.

15:26.120 --> 15:30.980 And then Perry left for Brian Titunik to start their own band, Collapsing Lungs.

15:31.160 --> 15:32.560 And so there was this vacuum.

15:32.740 --> 15:35.700 Originally, I was there to just kind of try to play percussion.

15:35.700 --> 15:37.420 There was a lot of questions behind the drum machine that Scott had.

15:38.140 --> 15:41.140 And so Manson asked me if I could play keyboards.

15:41.260 --> 15:44.500 And I'm like, well, I can push buttons on time, you know?

15:45.040 --> 15:45.980 It's a sampler.

15:46.320 --> 15:47.580 I'm still not a keyboard player.

15:47.960 --> 15:49.620 I mean, Ginger can play circles around me.

15:50.040 --> 15:51.720 You know, he's a real keyboard player.

15:52.480 --> 15:53.140 I'm not.

15:54.040 --> 15:57.620 So I don't have the footwork to be a proper drummer either.

15:57.740 --> 15:58.800 I can only do like loud percussion.

15:58.800 --> 16:04.340 So, but I do have the ability to press a button on a keyboard or hit a drum with my hands on beat.

16:04.740 --> 16:07.280 Not trying to brag, but that's my limited ability.

16:07.480 --> 16:09.140 Manson, you know, asked me to do that.

16:09.220 --> 16:09.920 I'm like, well, yeah.

16:10.380 --> 16:12.100 So I was really tired of the job.

16:12.180 --> 16:13.760 I just came out of college as an engineer.

16:14.360 --> 16:16.480 And I was really fucking bored.

16:16.760 --> 16:17.780 And the thing was really crazy.

16:17.840 --> 16:20.600 My first job, I worked at this place in Miami.

16:21.040 --> 16:23.200 And I really want to kind of screw the guy who hired me.

16:23.220 --> 16:26.300 Because he basically kept hiring good students after a year.

16:26.440 --> 16:27.980 And then not giving them raises.

16:28.180 --> 16:29.020 Promising them a raise.

16:29.300 --> 16:31.560 Then firing them and hiring another guy the next year.

16:31.900 --> 16:33.200 So the guy was just like a scammer.

16:33.200 --> 16:38.360 But anyway, the weird thing about him was, though, he gave me full access to like the corporate files.

16:38.840 --> 16:41.020 Because I was trying to be an industrial engineer with my degrees.

16:41.280 --> 16:44.520 And I was trying to find out how to cut waste to make this place more profitable.

16:44.940 --> 16:50.620 So when I finally got into the real files, I realized he's like paying his daughter and her boyfriend who never showed up to work.

16:50.900 --> 16:55.440 I'm like, if you really want to cut some fat off of your fucking production, inventory control budget,

16:55.440 --> 16:57.580 you might want to get raised people who don't show up to work.

16:57.800 --> 17:00.240 Instead of like, I'll fill these guys who already pack your boxes.

17:00.460 --> 17:00.700 You know what I mean?

17:00.820 --> 17:02.460 That's when I realized I'm a socialist.

17:02.460 --> 17:07.440 The first thing you find is that you guys are, you know, pinching the till.

17:07.680 --> 17:08.660 You know, for your family.

17:08.960 --> 17:10.800 You're being nepotistic, efficient.

17:11.160 --> 17:14.700 So as an engineer, I can tell you right away where the most money you're wasting is.

17:14.840 --> 17:16.820 And you're wasting it on your daughter and her boyfriend.

17:17.440 --> 17:17.720 Okay?

17:18.060 --> 17:18.620 And other shit.

17:18.780 --> 17:20.460 He was doing crazy shit, my boss.

17:20.500 --> 17:27.020 He was like, he was like, he bought a boat and tried to, like, write off under the corporate shit as a research vessel.

17:27.200 --> 17:28.020 Are you kidding me?

17:28.200 --> 17:28.640 What?

17:29.240 --> 17:29.860 Yeah, yeah.

17:29.900 --> 17:32.000 He bought tutters for his home and said they went on the factory.

17:32.000 --> 17:32.540 But they didn't.

17:32.720 --> 17:33.320 I was there.

17:33.740 --> 17:35.500 Anyways, subsequently, I was fired.

17:35.680 --> 17:39.800 But let's just say after the years, like, after I begged for my raise, like, no, you're gonna lay it off.

17:40.400 --> 17:46.160 The only good thing about it is I got one or two patents out of it for making certain things with these other gentlemen who were there.

17:47.160 --> 17:48.160 But anyways, that was fun.

17:48.160 --> 17:51.400 So, so I was, I was hanging out a lot with, uh, Manson.

17:51.760 --> 17:52.760 We'd go to all these shows.

17:52.760 --> 17:54.240 And then he asked me, you know, can you do this?

17:54.240 --> 17:57.340 So what I did was I, I just come out of college.

17:57.340 --> 17:58.740 I got my first new car ever.

17:58.740 --> 18:02.220 It was a gorgeous 1989 CRX SI.

18:02.520 --> 18:04.620 It's still my favorite car I've ever owned.

18:04.800 --> 18:08.520 When you're, when your first car you ever owned, it's like new, it's like your dream car.

18:08.580 --> 18:13.080 Like, oh, you know, it was crazy cheap because I had to rip everything out except what I wanted.

18:13.380 --> 18:14.560 My dad was a great haggler.

18:14.560 --> 18:16.320 He came down there with me to the dealership.

18:16.560 --> 18:19.920 So he used to sell big computer systems to, for IBM.

18:19.920 --> 18:23.100 So, you know, he knew how to haggle, you know, he was that guy.

18:23.100 --> 18:24.900 He's like, look, we're here to buy a car today.

18:25.180 --> 18:27.160 If you don't give us a deal, we're out in 10 minutes.

18:27.320 --> 18:30.520 My dad was the ultimate, like, fuck every other salesman.

18:30.520 --> 18:31.500 I'm the best salesman.

18:31.680 --> 18:33.580 I sell $3 million computer systems.

18:33.760 --> 18:35.480 You sell $10,000 dollars.

18:35.640 --> 18:36.300 I smoke you.

18:37.920 --> 18:39.300 So I got the sampler.

18:39.300 --> 18:40.740 It was an Akai S950.

18:40.740 --> 18:41.560 You still have it.

18:41.580 --> 18:42.640 Amazing machine.

18:43.080 --> 18:43.740 Great machine.

18:43.740 --> 18:47.760 I was looking around and the reason I got that particular sampler, sampler, sorry, was

18:47.760 --> 18:52.260 because, um, I would go to the industrial shows and I would watch what they were playing.

18:52.260 --> 18:55.500 Like, I'd go see the young gods play a great band from Switzerland.

18:55.500 --> 18:58.260 And that's something that he would have like two Akai's in his rack.

18:58.260 --> 19:00.660 And if you've never seen the young gods, they're amazing.

19:00.660 --> 19:05.760 There's a singer and a guy with like a rack of samplers and a drummer, and they're just amazing.

19:05.760 --> 19:10.020 And in fact, the guy who produced those shit, Rowling Mosselman, worked on the production

19:10.020 --> 19:11.580 of our first record, Portrait.

19:11.580 --> 19:14.340 Anyways, I kind of see how I dig, that's my problem.

19:14.340 --> 19:15.540 Mine's always digressing.

19:15.960 --> 19:17.340 There's just so many avenues.

19:17.760 --> 19:20.760 Oh, we, yes, we know that's a lot.

19:20.760 --> 19:25.340 Any one question you ask me could be an entire dissertation for a doctoral thesis.

19:25.340 --> 19:29.720 The guy was saying like, yeah, they don't have the best sound like the emus do as affordable

19:29.720 --> 19:33.020 as the insonics, but the Akai's are just roadworthy beasts.

19:33.020 --> 19:34.020 They could take a beating.

19:34.020 --> 19:37.020 They just work, you know, cause you know, it's Japanese stuff.

19:37.020 --> 19:39.100 That stuff is just like a Toyota truck.

19:39.100 --> 19:40.860 You can't kill that damn thing.

19:40.860 --> 19:41.360 Right.

19:41.360 --> 19:41.860 Yeah.

19:41.860 --> 19:47.860 So I went to those shows and we saw, um, when Nine Snells and, uh, actually our bank was

19:47.860 --> 19:48.860 over for me to be manifest.

19:48.860 --> 19:49.860 So the same thing, they had the Akai.

19:49.860 --> 19:51.360 So that's what I went for.

19:51.360 --> 19:53.860 Um, but I had to wait like six months for it to arrive.

19:53.860 --> 19:54.860 And I had to finance it.

19:54.860 --> 19:55.860 And it's funny.

19:55.860 --> 19:58.200 I had it like on a 10 year financing plan.

19:58.200 --> 19:59.700 So I finally paid it off.

19:59.700 --> 20:04.120 Like when we were making like mechanical animals or holy wood or something, literally six years

20:04.120 --> 20:07.000 after I stopped using it, that's the only way I could afford it.

20:07.000 --> 20:10.000 So I had to go like to my parents, my parents felt like I really fucked up.

20:10.000 --> 20:11.420 So my brother's a great musician.

20:11.420 --> 20:15.800 He's a natural born musician, musician like ginger brother and ginger, like just born.

20:15.800 --> 20:20.340 They can dance, they have footwork, they can, they have handwork, they can play any instrument.

20:20.340 --> 20:22.300 Uh, they're just multi-instrumentalists.

20:22.300 --> 20:25.840 They're just really some of the best natural musicians I've ever met.

20:25.840 --> 20:29.700 So, but I was like, you know, Hey, you know, I want to do this with my friend.

20:29.700 --> 20:32.100 My parents were like really like, Whoa, what?

20:32.100 --> 20:34.100 We just wasted all this money on college.

20:34.100 --> 20:35.600 What the fuck are you doing?

20:35.600 --> 20:40.880 And I was like, okay, promise you, if we don't make it in five years, I'll go back to

20:40.880 --> 20:45.040 my boring desk job in a cubicle staring at a screen I hate.

20:45.040 --> 20:46.040 Okay.

20:46.040 --> 20:51.640 So luckily, you know, this band, this project, whatever you want to call it, you know, had

20:51.640 --> 20:57.580 Manson there and he was just so motivational and so promotional and he knew a lot of people

20:57.580 --> 21:01.740 because he worked for the, uh, journalistic music magazines in Florida.

21:01.740 --> 21:06.400 So he could always get into those shows and he just, you know, he was highly motivated.

21:06.400 --> 21:09.500 Again, you know, without his motivation, nothing would have happened.

21:09.500 --> 21:14.000 I promise you that because then what happened is Scott had been in several previous bands

21:14.000 --> 21:17.500 and Manson and myself, we had never been in any band before.

21:17.500 --> 21:18.500 It was our first band.

21:18.500 --> 21:20.500 So we had those high hopes like, fuck it.

21:20.500 --> 21:21.500 We're going to be bigger than the Beatles.

21:21.500 --> 21:22.500 Watch this shit.

21:22.500 --> 21:23.500 You know?

21:23.500 --> 21:27.500 And then like Scott would be like all like, Oh God, you guys are so like foolish and whatever.

21:27.500 --> 21:30.500 And that was Scott because he kind of got a bit jaded because he'd been in so many bands

21:30.500 --> 21:32.500 and see how shit breaks up and nothing happens.

21:32.500 --> 21:38.500 But he didn't have that same sort of like do whatever it takes attitude that Brian had

21:38.500 --> 21:40.500 that he kind of inspired me to do the same thing.

21:40.500 --> 21:41.500 Like, you'll gamble everything.

21:41.500 --> 21:45.500 You don't, you can't, you know, win big unless you risk big, you know, gambling.

21:45.500 --> 21:51.500 And so, you know, he and I both did that kind of shit where it was just like, let's just see what happens, man.

21:51.500 --> 21:52.500 You know, you're in your twenties.

21:52.500 --> 21:55.500 If you're ever going to try to do it better now than later, you know?

21:55.500 --> 21:56.500 Yeah.

21:56.500 --> 21:58.500 And his parents were so behind him.

21:58.500 --> 22:02.500 And Barb and Hugh were just the nicest, sweetest people.

22:02.500 --> 22:04.500 Hysterically funny.

22:04.500 --> 22:05.500 Hysterically funny.

22:05.500 --> 22:07.500 Like, like, like, I mentioned this.

22:07.500 --> 22:11.500 I mean, just witty, quick wit, just, just fun to hang around.

22:11.500 --> 22:14.500 Some of the most fun times I've ever had with these people.

22:14.500 --> 22:19.500 Anyway, so, so it became then we had, there's this guy, Brad Stewart, who was, you know,

22:19.500 --> 22:22.500 in South Florida scene and he just came from California.

22:22.500 --> 22:24.500 So he knew what was hip as fuck or whatever.

22:24.500 --> 22:27.500 Brad was completely like 20 pounds of cool in a five pound sack.

22:27.500 --> 22:28.500 You know?

22:28.500 --> 22:29.500 So cool.

22:29.500 --> 22:32.500 He had to do heroin just cause it's heroin and it's cool.

22:32.500 --> 22:41.500 So he came, he was on and brought like, you know, the striped tights and the shorts and, you know, the, the, the, some of the ridiculous shit.

22:41.500 --> 22:47.500 Again, also Brian did and, and, and all of us did because we could only shop at thrift stores.

22:47.500 --> 22:49.500 And so we get this old stuff and we put it together.

22:49.500 --> 22:58.500 We tried to break, we called like the, you know, the speed of color or the color barrier by wearing just the most gaudy, ridiculous, unmatching shit you could find.

22:58.500 --> 22:59.500 Because it just stands out.

22:59.500 --> 23:00.500 Right.

23:00.500 --> 23:07.500 So Scott, Scott was, you know, the only person who, whoever I think besides maybe Ginger or five who could read sheet music.

23:07.500 --> 23:09.500 Like, you know, Paul McCartney can't read it.

23:09.500 --> 23:10.500 So why the fuck should I?

23:10.500 --> 23:11.500 You know?

23:11.500 --> 23:15.500 So it was, it was really, it was kind of organic.

23:15.500 --> 23:18.500 So Scott came in with his drum machine and his playing style.

23:18.500 --> 23:22.500 Everybody was a big fan of like, you know, Charles Mann, Charles Manson's hilarious.

23:22.500 --> 23:23.500 His quotes are just so funny.

23:23.500 --> 23:25.500 So we love that kind of crap.

23:25.500 --> 23:28.500 So can you tell us like how did, how did the writing process start?

23:28.500 --> 23:30.500 Manson, all these amazing poems.

23:30.500 --> 23:34.500 He was a really good writer and he actually was a music journalist at the time.

23:34.500 --> 23:36.500 So he was a very good writer.

23:36.500 --> 23:38.500 And that's the one thing we first got together.

23:38.500 --> 23:39.500 I'll go back to that story.

23:39.500 --> 23:41.500 So we're at this club called Prior and Ice.

23:41.500 --> 23:43.500 And like I said, I'm wearing my Peter Herman suit.

23:43.500 --> 23:44.500 He's there with his long hair.

23:44.500 --> 23:45.500 He just moved from Ohio.

23:45.500 --> 23:47.500 And this girl introduced his name, Lauren.

23:47.500 --> 23:48.500 And we got along.

23:48.500 --> 23:49.500 We had a great time talking.

23:49.500 --> 23:53.500 So then we started seeing all the local shows and we like think, dude, man, this is just too easy.

23:53.500 --> 23:54.500 These people suck.

23:54.500 --> 23:55.500 You know?

23:55.500 --> 23:56.500 Right.

23:56.500 --> 24:01.500 And again, like if you go to make poetry, like why have a terrible life?

24:01.500 --> 24:05.500 Why don't you just make poetry song lyrics like Leonard Cohen did, you know?

24:05.500 --> 24:07.500 So it was kind of that thing.

24:07.500 --> 24:13.500 So then Scott came in and then Brad came in after, you know, Brian and Perry left.

24:13.500 --> 24:15.500 And Brad was just like super cool.

24:15.500 --> 24:19.500 He's the one who brought the lunch boxes in, that whole kind of shit.

24:19.500 --> 24:23.500 He introduced a lot of stuff that was kind of like image related.

24:23.500 --> 24:24.500 Plus he had that attitude.

24:24.500 --> 24:29.500 You know, he's all like New York Dolls and the Zeros and Johnny Thunder and The Residents.

24:29.500 --> 24:32.500 And, you know, too cool for school shit.

24:32.500 --> 24:34.500 And really, really, I don't know.

24:34.500 --> 24:35.500 He was a lot of fun.

24:35.500 --> 24:41.500 He was just listening to Meat Puppets and we used to call the first record Human Repellent because no one can listen to that record but us.

24:41.500 --> 24:44.500 So every time we wanted to get high in the car, we played that as loud as possible.

24:44.500 --> 24:47.500 And then one would try to do drugs with us because he couldn't handle the music.

24:47.500 --> 24:49.500 Seriously, go get that first Meat Puppets record.

24:49.500 --> 24:56.500 It's like country music played like so sloppily with some guy like yelling off key.

24:56.500 --> 25:01.500 It's just fucking a little in-tune repellent.

25:01.500 --> 25:02.500 Like play that.

25:02.500 --> 25:05.500 It will annoy like 99% of the people you know.

25:05.500 --> 25:08.500 So we used to play that shit and some stuff started coming together.

25:08.500 --> 25:10.500 So I finally was able to leverage my shit.

25:10.500 --> 25:15.500 I wasn't able to play the first couple shows because I had to find anything to come through.

25:15.500 --> 25:19.500 I had to order the sampler and the keyboard and whatever I needed to rack for it.

25:19.500 --> 25:23.500 And so from I think Manny's, like I said, in Miami.

25:23.500 --> 25:34.500 Anyway, so like the first couple shows, I just stood on the side of the stage and played with Army Man and Doys when it was just like Brad and Scott and Marilyn.

25:34.500 --> 25:36.500 Or I should say, there we go.

25:36.500 --> 25:38.500 Fuck, what was Brad's name again?

25:38.500 --> 25:39.500 Kidjigarn, okay?

25:39.500 --> 25:40.500 Kidjigarn, okay?

25:40.500 --> 25:43.500 Kidjigarn, David Blickowitz and Marilyn Manson.

25:43.500 --> 25:49.500 And there was Pogo just over there playing with Army Man while we're opening up for like Meat Beat and Nine Inch Nails.

25:49.500 --> 25:50.500 This is crazy.

25:50.500 --> 25:54.500 Well, it's because we were playing a lot of shows locally and doing really quite well.

25:54.500 --> 25:58.500 Especially after like a year, we got our managers came from like the Mavericks and helped us.

25:58.500 --> 26:04.500 And we got a real drummer instead of the drum machine, which is really kind of hard for us, for me at least at the beginning.

26:04.500 --> 26:11.500 Because with the drum machine that Scott was programming, the Yamaha, I knew that my samples, if I triggered them on time, they'd be perfectly in sync.

26:11.500 --> 26:15.500 Because the drum machine can't push or pull the beat. It can't rush it or slow it down.

26:15.500 --> 26:21.500 But once you get a real drummer and you start playing like live like that, you'll notice that like, you know, verses tend to slow down.

26:21.500 --> 26:24.500 Choruses seem to speed up, you know what I mean?

26:24.500 --> 26:29.500 So now you have to be able to like re-trigger kind of as best as you can to make the loops fit in time.

26:29.500 --> 26:33.500 Because at that point in time, I was mostly playing loops with a few notes and shit, kind of playing.

26:33.500 --> 26:39.500 In fact, the very first show, oh my God, it was at Churchill's in Little Haiti in Miami.

26:39.500 --> 26:46.500 And I was doing like lights and sound. I wasn't even on stage. That was when still Brian Stunick was there and Perry was there.

26:46.500 --> 26:53.500 So, you know, it was just fun, you know. I don't know what I was. I just knew I was, you know, friends with the dudes.

26:53.500 --> 26:59.500 And it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Everybody had certain things they got along with and certain things they didn't.

26:59.500 --> 27:05.500 One of the things I remember really well is that both Marilyn and Gidgett worked at, I think, Peaches Records and Tapes.

27:05.500 --> 27:11.500 And Brad would constantly like steal shit.

27:11.500 --> 27:14.500 I'm from Orlando and they had a Peaches in Orlando.

27:14.500 --> 27:15.500 Yeah, Peaches was amazing.

27:15.500 --> 27:17.500 I loved Peaches.

27:17.500 --> 27:20.500 I remember that big question. David Bowie's Lowe album cover out front.

27:20.500 --> 27:21.500 Like, yeah, you guys are rockin'.

27:21.500 --> 27:24.500 Yeah, and they had those, um, peach crates. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

27:24.500 --> 27:29.500 Brian and Gidgett, blood cup shit can for nefarious activities.

27:29.500 --> 27:33.500 Gidgett, steal me shit. Cause you know that I was really into heavy, sludgy shit.

27:33.500 --> 27:39.500 So I had a big stab at the head. And so he was the one who introduced me to the Melvins and to Godflesh.

27:39.500 --> 27:41.500 Cause he stole those cassettes and gave them to me.

27:41.500 --> 27:45.500 That was back in the day when you get a cassette player and you record it.

27:45.500 --> 27:47.500 And I would make copies and give it to all my friends.

27:47.500 --> 27:50.500 Like, dude, you gotta hear the shit. The heaviest shit ever.

27:50.500 --> 27:54.500 You know? And we have friends with all these people who run into like Coil and Current 93.

27:54.500 --> 27:57.500 All kinds of weird shit. That was the best part.

27:57.500 --> 27:59.500 So everybody had what they really loved. You know what I mean?

27:59.500 --> 28:00.500 And it was different stuff.

28:00.500 --> 28:06.500 And then eventually Scott had worked with Fred Stridehorse, Sarah Lucas in another band.

28:06.500 --> 28:09.500 Figures band where maybe India Loves You or something.

28:09.500 --> 28:15.500 And he came to the band, the drummer. And we always had like jokes with each other.

28:15.500 --> 28:18.500 It was, they were offensive and that's how we are. You know, we're pretty fucking offensive.

28:18.500 --> 28:27.500 Back in the day, it was so much fun cause it was, you know, the Spooky Kids hotline, which was like one of the phones at Manson's parents' apartment.

28:27.500 --> 28:29.500 Oh my God. Oh my God.

28:29.500 --> 28:32.500 We would leave messages and we made like own little zines.

28:32.500 --> 28:39.500 And we'd always go out and do flyers cause we knew this girl at Kinko's who would like let us like copy almost for free.

28:39.500 --> 28:44.500 So we would sit there and, you know, a doctor and make our own flyers for every show.

28:44.500 --> 28:48.500 And we would like make hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them.

28:48.500 --> 28:54.500 And then we would go out at night during the weeks into other concerts and flyer every car in the parking lot.

28:54.500 --> 28:59.500 And make our shit like as offensive as possible so people could remember it.

28:59.500 --> 29:00.500 You know what I mean?

29:00.500 --> 29:01.500 Yeah. Absolutely.

29:01.500 --> 29:03.500 The first rule is no assisting his bad breasts.

29:03.500 --> 29:10.500 That's what we would do. We'd be out in front of, you know, concerts for, I don't know, Peter Murphy or The Damned.

29:10.500 --> 29:20.500 Or I'd go out to the peppers with megaphones, carrying crucifixes, passing out spiritual birth certificates so people could sell their soul to us.

29:20.500 --> 29:26.500 Sometimes I've got kind of sense of humor about it, like, you know, provoking and offending just for the sheer love of it.

29:26.500 --> 29:30.500 You know, it's like an insult comic, like Don Rickles or some shit.

29:30.500 --> 29:31.500 You know what I mean?

29:31.500 --> 29:34.500 There's a seriousness too, but there was a lot of winking and tongue in cheek shit.

29:34.500 --> 29:40.500 Cause again, like you take yourself too seriously, like some death metal, Viking metal dude, you become a self parody.

29:40.500 --> 29:41.500 You know what I mean?

29:41.500 --> 29:45.500 Like you might as well like wink and go, oh no, I'm a friendly clown. Wink, wink.

29:45.500 --> 29:48.500 As John Wayne Casey or something, you know, with Pogo or Patches or whatever.

29:48.500 --> 29:54.500 That's the thing is like, without that sense of humor behind it, it becomes like a self parody.

29:54.500 --> 29:58.500 With the self sense of self humor, it becomes actually kind of scary.

29:58.500 --> 30:01.500 Cause do they fucking mean this or are they fucking around?

30:01.500 --> 30:05.500 Right. When did you start to realize that you were a part of something really special?

30:05.500 --> 30:10.500 Well, I mean, there's this big stock up in Florida and you know, we became part of that, you know?

30:10.500 --> 30:16.500 You know, so you had Janet Torturers in Orlando, you had Invented Sea Snakes in Tampa coming down from Atlanta.

30:16.500 --> 30:19.500 And you had Gigi Allen in Orlando and you had us.

30:19.500 --> 30:20.500 Yeah.

30:20.500 --> 30:21.500 And South Florida.

30:21.500 --> 30:26.500 And we just did everything we could to just, you know, the will to provoke, to offend.

30:26.500 --> 30:31.500 And so the things like, we didn't do that many shows, maybe one a month, but they were spectacles.

30:31.500 --> 30:37.500 Fire for a whole month so we could get a big crowd, even though we may not have been the best musicians, especially Brad.

30:37.500 --> 30:40.500 Because he was so high, sometimes we had a problem up on stage.

30:40.500 --> 30:43.500 And you know, we wore the meat pants and we did everything possibly weird.

30:43.500 --> 30:46.500 Like, not possibly weird. I mean, there's people who have done worse, like Gigi Allen.

30:46.500 --> 30:49.500 We didn't light our poop on fire and throw it at people.

30:49.500 --> 30:51.500 But you know, that had been done by that point.

30:51.500 --> 30:56.500 We wore the meat pants, got like, you know, mortadella and put it in our stockings and wore that.

30:56.500 --> 31:03.500 And then we, like, people would pass around like beef hearts as like, like, you know, volleyballs or soccer balls of the audience.

31:03.500 --> 31:08.500 And we had women in cages and children in cages and chainsaws and sparks.

31:08.500 --> 31:17.500 And we had like women, like ironing their mock flags and stuff, you know, with like a TV in her stomach, you know, showing abortions and stuff.

31:17.500 --> 31:19.500 It was just hilarious.

31:19.500 --> 31:26.500 You know, it was like, you know, it was like a, it's supposed to be as much of a visual spectacle as it was like a sonic spectacle, you know?

31:26.500 --> 31:29.500 So that's why we kind of got named.

31:29.500 --> 31:33.500 I thought that was always funny because Brad thought we should probably try and figure out your genre.

31:33.500 --> 31:41.500 Because, you know, everybody in every alternative or metal style needs some stupid unique genre that's really so similar to another genre.

31:41.500 --> 31:46.500 It's absurd, like, what's the difference between stone or rock and doom metal and sludge metal?

31:46.500 --> 31:47.500 I don't fucking know.

31:47.500 --> 31:50.500 You know, it's like, it's like, it's like discerning these like certain styles of jazz.

31:50.500 --> 31:53.500 Like really fucking no one cared but you.

31:53.500 --> 31:55.500 So, I mean, the jazz guy.

31:55.500 --> 31:58.500 Brad thought we should call ourselves splattered by him.

31:58.500 --> 31:59.500 What a great term.

31:59.500 --> 32:01.500 You know, like all these horror films, these glam shit.

32:01.500 --> 32:11.500 And, uh, but however, I think, um, the, uh, Miami Herald or Sun Sentinel labeled us an industrial metal circus, which was just as good.

32:11.500 --> 32:15.500 They only had our, uh, especially when we got the later demos.

32:15.500 --> 32:17.500 We did this after we were playing a lot of live shows.

32:17.500 --> 32:25.500 We did this live recording called live as hell at Moore sound studios in Tampa, where we were all live on the radio, but in different recording booths at a real studio.

32:25.500 --> 32:29.500 And it sounded amazing because we see each other and play like we did live.

32:29.500 --> 32:31.500 And then, so we finally had that ammunition.

32:31.500 --> 32:37.500 And I believe that was the cassette he handed to Trent at a Nine Inch Nails show.

32:37.500 --> 32:38.500 And Trent really liked it.

32:38.500 --> 32:46.500 And so that's kind of how we got signed because originally we'd go to all these, like, uh, things for different record labels, Sony, Chrysalis, whatever.

32:46.500 --> 32:48.500 And they'd always have an issue.

32:48.500 --> 32:50.500 Like, cause they make you play these dumb shows.

32:50.500 --> 32:51.500 Okay. Right.

32:51.500 --> 32:54.500 Like they make you play like for the five guys in a fucking empty warehouse.

32:54.500 --> 32:59.500 How hard is it to get motivated playing for the five dudes in suits in an empty warehouse?

32:59.500 --> 33:02.500 Like you always want to fucking punch the fucking dick.

33:02.500 --> 33:03.500 You know what I mean?

33:03.500 --> 33:05.500 Just for making you do that shit.

33:05.500 --> 33:07.500 So, and they would always have an issue.

33:07.500 --> 33:09.500 Like we love the band, but we hate the singer.

33:09.500 --> 33:11.500 We love the singer, but we hate the band.

33:11.500 --> 33:13.500 Could you please do this and not that?

33:13.500 --> 33:14.500 And it was like, oh, fuck yourself.

33:14.500 --> 33:15.500 No.

33:15.500 --> 33:16.500 Trent heard that.

33:16.500 --> 33:18.500 And he really loved that live as hell recording.

33:18.500 --> 33:20.500 I mean, this, again, like I told you, I'm old.

33:20.500 --> 33:22.500 I haven't thought about this in a while.

33:22.500 --> 33:27.500 I tend to confabulate things sometimes because again, you know, I've killed about a billion brain cells since then.

33:27.500 --> 33:28.500 I'm about to be 62.

33:28.500 --> 33:32.500 So now what happens is strangely, I remember mostly the good shit.

33:32.500 --> 33:35.500 Like my brain acts like that, at least with me.

33:35.500 --> 33:37.500 Like it doesn't remember the bad shit.

33:37.500 --> 33:41.500 It remembers the good shit and kind of combines it all into one big pile of good shit.

33:41.500 --> 33:45.500 You forget all the things that you used to be so butthurt about when you were younger.

33:45.500 --> 33:48.500 You know, cause you're just like, wow man, life should be fucking awesome.

33:48.500 --> 33:50.500 You've had a pretty amazing life.

33:50.500 --> 33:51.500 Don't kill yourself.

33:51.500 --> 33:52.500 It gets better.

33:52.500 --> 33:53.500 Yes.

33:53.500 --> 33:54.500 That is very important.

33:54.500 --> 33:56.500 You know, cause when you're young, you take shit way too seriously.

33:56.500 --> 33:57.500 It doesn't matter.

33:57.500 --> 33:58.500 Fuck.

33:58.500 --> 33:59.500 Right.

33:59.500 --> 34:04.500 And then when you get older, you realize, why did I give a shit what any person else thought?

34:04.500 --> 34:06.500 And I can always kind of have that in a strange way.

34:06.500 --> 34:07.500 Cause that's that punk rock thing.

34:07.500 --> 34:08.500 You know what I mean?

34:08.500 --> 34:09.500 Like go fuck yourself.

34:09.500 --> 34:10.500 I don't care what you think.

34:10.500 --> 34:14.500 But again, you can become too serious where like, oh man, I suck.

34:14.500 --> 34:16.500 I sold more than 10 records.

34:16.500 --> 34:22.500 Was there a local Florida show that stands out to you before you guys made it big?

34:22.500 --> 34:23.500 I don't know.

34:23.500 --> 34:26.500 I think all of them were really, really amazing.

34:26.500 --> 34:28.500 So much planning went into it.

34:28.500 --> 34:29.500 It's so much fun.

34:29.500 --> 34:33.500 We had with the hotline and the fly ring and the zines and just the shenanigans even having

34:33.500 --> 34:35.500 side projects like Satan on fire.

34:35.500 --> 34:37.500 That's how like Jordy got in there.

34:37.500 --> 34:39.500 Cause he was in there cause we used to play the boogalart a lot.

34:39.500 --> 34:40.500 It was just fun.

34:40.500 --> 34:41.500 It was just a lot of fun.

34:41.500 --> 34:45.500 Everybody knew everybody was a scene where, you know, you, I mean a lot, a lot of times when we

34:45.500 --> 34:50.500 you'd be playing clubs that were besides being alternative or punk or whatever, or metal,

34:50.500 --> 34:54.500 you know, a lot of times it was like, you know, gay clubs or lesbian clubs or whatever.

34:54.500 --> 34:58.500 You know, it was like, everybody's in that same scene in our artists places because they

34:58.500 --> 35:02.500 were all like, not, you know, like by normal society type fuckers.

35:02.500 --> 35:03.500 Right.

35:03.500 --> 35:08.500 You had like Nazi punks together with like anarchist punks together with like sharpie skinheads

35:08.500 --> 35:13.500 together with like, you know, just all kinds of like hippy dippy fucking people, you know,

35:13.500 --> 35:15.500 who wanted to revive the sixties.

35:15.500 --> 35:18.500 And, but all of them released were, they were just, were so sick of South Florida.

35:18.500 --> 35:23.500 It was very, you know, I was kind of like dance music oriented, Miami beach, you know,

35:23.500 --> 35:24.500 very whatever.

35:24.500 --> 35:27.500 No disrespect to Gloria Estefan, the Miami sound machine.

35:27.500 --> 35:29.500 But you know what I'm saying?

35:29.500 --> 35:34.500 So this brings us into portrait of an American family and smells like children.

35:34.500 --> 35:38.500 You kind of explained already how your relationship with Trent Reznor began.

35:38.500 --> 35:42.500 Can you just tell us how it was working with him during that time?

35:42.500 --> 35:46.500 So we went to the studio, got a producer Roley Mossaman, who actually worked,

35:46.500 --> 35:47.500 it was in the swans.

35:47.500 --> 35:49.500 He did shit with the young gods.

35:49.500 --> 35:50.500 Shit that I love.

35:50.500 --> 35:51.500 You know what I mean?

35:51.500 --> 35:52.500 He thought it would be really cool.

35:52.500 --> 35:55.500 And like, and like Manson mentions in his book, he kept losing teeth.

35:55.500 --> 35:56.500 Do you know what I mean?

35:56.500 --> 35:59.500 The record kind of came out way too slick.

35:59.500 --> 36:00.500 Way too slick.

36:00.500 --> 36:03.500 In a way that was like guns and roses record.

36:03.500 --> 36:04.500 You know what I mean?

36:04.500 --> 36:05.500 Oh, okay.

36:05.500 --> 36:06.500 You can see how that would be bad.

36:06.500 --> 36:07.500 Right.

36:07.500 --> 36:09.500 You know, it's the very sound of those two words together.

36:09.500 --> 36:10.500 Marilyn Manson's only guns and roses.

36:10.500 --> 36:11.500 That sounds like shite.

36:11.500 --> 36:12.500 Right.

36:12.500 --> 36:14.500 He was trying to hurt it.

36:14.500 --> 36:15.500 And he was like, what the fuck?

36:15.500 --> 36:17.500 And me and Brad both hated it.

36:17.500 --> 36:19.500 I think a lot of it had to do with like Scott.

36:19.500 --> 36:22.500 Cause Scott wanted to get this most pure recording ever.

36:22.500 --> 36:23.500 I mean, some other people did too.

36:23.500 --> 36:25.500 I don't want to throw him under the bus, but he's dead.

36:25.500 --> 36:26.500 And I can.

36:26.500 --> 36:27.500 So it came out.

36:27.500 --> 36:28.500 I hate it.

36:28.500 --> 36:29.500 Cause it was just not us.

36:29.500 --> 36:30.500 It didn't sound like us.

36:30.500 --> 36:33.500 It sounded like a super slick up, you know, like Hollywood version.

36:33.500 --> 36:34.500 Of us.

36:34.500 --> 36:35.500 Not like us.

36:35.500 --> 36:36.500 Cause what made us.

36:36.500 --> 36:37.500 At least in my opinion.

36:37.500 --> 36:42.500 And apparently in Trent's and in Brad's and in Brian's and it wasn't

36:42.500 --> 36:46.500 to have that wrong anger energy, like a Stooges record or like a proper,

36:46.500 --> 36:47.500 you know what I mean?

36:47.500 --> 36:50.500 Like, like it, like, you know, it's better to be a little bit less slick

36:50.500 --> 36:52.500 and a lot more piss and vinegar.

36:52.500 --> 36:53.500 You know what I mean?

36:53.500 --> 36:54.500 A lot more in your face.

36:54.500 --> 36:55.500 Yeah.

36:55.500 --> 36:56.500 And a lot more just like, get that idea.

36:56.500 --> 36:58.500 Cause it was our live shows is where we really excelled.

36:58.500 --> 36:59.500 You know what I mean?

36:59.500 --> 37:03.500 Our demos, if you hear them, they sound like garbage because we're recorded

37:03.500 --> 37:06.500 on a FOSSEC four tracks, but now people really want that sound.

37:06.500 --> 37:07.500 They kind of like it.

37:07.500 --> 37:09.500 I hear it now and I go, yeah, it's endearing.

37:09.500 --> 37:10.500 It's endearing.

37:10.500 --> 37:13.500 Like hearing something through a megaphone from the 1920s.

37:13.500 --> 37:15.500 Everybody, you know, finds what they're like.

37:15.500 --> 37:19.500 I'm not here to judge somebody else's view of how things should sound.

37:19.500 --> 37:20.500 Cause I'm not that good at it myself.

37:20.500 --> 37:22.500 Anyways, any who, anyhow.

37:22.500 --> 37:26.500 So Trent had us come to LA to re-record it.

37:26.500 --> 37:29.500 Initially he brought Marilyn there to do it.

37:29.500 --> 37:31.500 And they had some Akai S-Line 50s like I did.

37:31.500 --> 37:35.500 Cause the S-Line 50 Akai sampler was 12-bit mono.

37:35.500 --> 37:41.500 It wasn't like the later S-1000s and such that went to like 16-bit in stereo and crap.

37:41.500 --> 37:43.500 So all my shit was done in that format.

37:43.500 --> 37:46.500 And the thing is though, I had my machine completely tricked out.

37:46.500 --> 37:51.500 I had all the RAM in it, all the extra ROM, everything I could have in it.

37:51.500 --> 37:57.500 So when they tried to reuse my sample library for the floppies into the shit they had in LA,

37:57.500 --> 37:58.500 it wouldn't work.

37:58.500 --> 38:01.500 Because the S-Line 50s they had were not tricked out like mine was.

38:01.500 --> 38:04.500 Like it was kind of like a really shitty car.

38:04.500 --> 38:07.500 Like someone who gets like an old Volkswagen Beetle and really tricks it out.

38:07.500 --> 38:08.500 You know, that was me.

38:08.500 --> 38:11.500 You can make a Volkswagen Beetle look dope as fuck.

38:11.500 --> 38:12.500 Oh yeah.

38:12.500 --> 38:13.500 You know, like Doom Buggies and shit.

38:13.500 --> 38:14.500 It was awesome.

38:14.500 --> 38:20.500 Anyway, so they had to fly me out with my sampler because the problem is when they try to load that shit into the S-1000 sampler,

38:20.500 --> 38:23.500 it got a lot of aliasing that they didn't like.

38:23.500 --> 38:30.500 So I had to bring my machine because apparently I was the only one in North America with that ridiculous set of cards in it.

38:30.500 --> 38:31.500 Because that's what I do.

38:31.500 --> 38:36.500 Like I'd rather fly, again, like the low end of something, but get it the most tricked out.

38:36.500 --> 38:37.500 You know?

38:37.500 --> 38:39.500 Like I have a Honda now, but it's like the sport model.

38:39.500 --> 38:42.500 I'm cheap, but I want it to be cheap and fancy.

38:42.500 --> 38:43.500 If it works, it works.

38:43.500 --> 38:44.500 Okay.

38:44.500 --> 38:48.500 So we went and did that there and it was really hilarious and the best time.

38:48.500 --> 38:54.500 The fact that the van that we were in got carjacked at one point in time at a gas station in L.A.

38:54.500 --> 38:55.500 It was a lot of time.

38:55.500 --> 38:56.500 We were sleeping in this place.

38:56.500 --> 38:57.500 It was really nice.

38:57.500 --> 38:59.500 I suddenly realized, oh my God, California is the best weather.

38:59.500 --> 39:00.500 Like, holy shit.

39:00.500 --> 39:01.500 It's cool at night.

39:01.500 --> 39:03.500 It's warm in the day.

39:03.500 --> 39:04.500 It doesn't rain too much.

39:04.500 --> 39:06.500 I was like, oh man, this is delightful.

39:06.500 --> 39:11.500 So we went and did that and it was the same time Trent was doing downward spiral.

39:11.500 --> 39:13.500 And then eventually everybody came out.

39:13.500 --> 39:16.500 Brad and Scott and I don't think Fred came out.

39:16.500 --> 39:17.500 Maybe he did.

39:17.500 --> 39:18.500 I'm not sure.

39:18.500 --> 39:19.500 I can't remember.

39:19.500 --> 39:21.500 Again, I told you a lot of brain cells have died since then.

39:21.500 --> 39:24.500 Not just from old age, but from chemicals and whatnot.

39:24.500 --> 39:25.500 Don't quote me on this.

39:25.500 --> 39:30.500 I mean, quote me, but don't assume that it's completely, you know, truthful.

39:30.500 --> 39:33.500 Because I'm trying to do my best to remember, but, you know.

39:33.500 --> 39:34.500 Oh no, you're honestly doing great.

39:34.500 --> 39:35.500 So you're totally fine.

39:35.500 --> 39:39.500 We went and did this and that's where a lot of those fun stories happen.

39:39.500 --> 39:43.500 I mean, wearing like jeans and his makeup and going out and, you know,

39:43.500 --> 39:46.500 trying to like solicit, uh, transsexual prostitutes and stuff.

39:46.500 --> 39:47.500 It was hilarious.

39:47.500 --> 39:49.500 Oh, and a funny fucking story there.

39:49.500 --> 39:50.500 Okay.

39:50.500 --> 39:54.500 So we're in the record plan and Trent's doing his shit and we're doing our shit.

39:54.500 --> 39:57.500 And, um, Trent's may or may not show up.

39:57.500 --> 40:00.500 So Trent had just gotten like a brand new Porsche or something from Jimmy Iovine

40:00.500 --> 40:02.500 when he signed to Interscope.

40:02.500 --> 40:03.500 Uh-huh.

40:03.500 --> 40:04.500 And put his own label, nothing.

40:04.500 --> 40:05.500 That we were holding on.

40:05.500 --> 40:07.500 And, but when Prince came, guess what?

40:07.500 --> 40:10.500 Trent couldn't park his fucking goddamn Porsche in front of the studio.

40:10.500 --> 40:11.500 And he's pissed and rightfully so.

40:11.500 --> 40:12.500 That's an expensive car.

40:12.500 --> 40:14.500 This is a bad part of town.

40:14.500 --> 40:16.500 It's right at Santa Monica and shit.

40:16.500 --> 40:17.500 So you don't want that.

40:17.500 --> 40:20.500 And so, of course, Prince might show up and he needs like six spaces for his limo.

40:20.500 --> 40:22.500 Yeah, he's that kind of douche.

40:22.500 --> 40:24.500 You can be talented and completely douchey.

40:24.500 --> 40:27.500 Those two things are not, you know, mutually exclusive.

40:27.500 --> 40:28.500 Right.

40:28.500 --> 40:29.500 Yeah.

40:29.500 --> 40:34.500 So anyways, so, and when, and when he might come and tell us, okay, close your studio door.

40:34.500 --> 40:36.500 Uh, Prince does not want to be looked at.

40:36.500 --> 40:37.500 And this is Trent Lesnar, right?

40:37.500 --> 40:39.500 And this is us and there's all these other people there.

40:39.500 --> 40:41.500 So what, it's funny.

40:41.500 --> 40:46.500 We go get gay porno magazines and take them centerfolds to the outside of our studio door.

40:46.500 --> 40:50.500 So when, uh, Prince walked by, you have to see all these dicks.

40:51.500 --> 40:53.500 Oh, okay.

40:53.500 --> 40:54.500 Check it out.

40:54.500 --> 40:59.500 Here's where you go walk by and you'll see, cause we put it on the inside of the studio door, not the outside.

40:59.500 --> 41:01.500 Did you ever see him? See him?

41:01.500 --> 41:03.500 No, because we have to sit over the door.

41:03.500 --> 41:04.500 Oh, damn.

41:04.500 --> 41:07.500 So Trent basically reworked the album.

41:07.500 --> 41:08.500 Absolutely.

41:08.500 --> 41:12.500 He made it sound like how we sounded when he heard that live as hell recorded.

41:12.500 --> 41:15.500 Well, you see, it's the raw, angry power.

41:15.500 --> 41:17.500 Kind of like what we knew about the Stooges.

41:17.500 --> 41:18.500 You know what I mean?

41:18.500 --> 41:19.500 It's what you want to capture about Iggy Pop.

41:19.500 --> 41:20.500 It's that crazy rawness.

41:20.500 --> 41:21.500 You know what I mean?

41:21.500 --> 41:22.500 It shouldn't be polished.

41:22.500 --> 41:24.500 It should be a little rough around the edges.

41:24.500 --> 41:26.500 It just didn't sound like us, man.

41:26.500 --> 41:28.500 It sounded like us trying to be like commercial.

41:28.500 --> 41:29.500 Seriously, still.

41:29.500 --> 41:31.500 Do you really hear us on the radio ever?

41:31.500 --> 41:32.500 Fuck no.

41:32.500 --> 41:36.500 I still look and go, you can actually see in your royalties what comes from my leg.

41:36.500 --> 41:38.500 We never get played on the radio still.

41:38.500 --> 41:39.500 Never did.

41:39.500 --> 41:40.500 Never will.

41:40.500 --> 41:41.500 Fuck em.

41:41.500 --> 41:42.500 We had great directors.

41:42.500 --> 41:43.500 You know, DPs and shit.

41:43.500 --> 41:44.500 You know, Dean Carr.

41:44.500 --> 41:45.500 Just some close eyes.

41:45.500 --> 41:46.500 All kinds of people.

41:46.500 --> 41:47.500 We had great people doing our videos.

41:47.500 --> 41:49.500 So, Paul Hunter, I think.

41:49.500 --> 41:52.500 And, you know, Manson had a lot of good ideas.

41:52.500 --> 41:56.500 And so certainly everybody in the band, but, you know, about what they wanted to look like.

41:56.500 --> 41:57.500 You know?

41:57.500 --> 42:00.500 And that was more almost important that, you know, we were.

42:00.500 --> 42:01.500 I don't know if people don't like that.

42:01.500 --> 42:02.500 You know?

42:02.500 --> 42:07.500 I guess I can understand why if they're like musicians, you know, what do you play an orchestra

42:07.500 --> 42:08.500 or some shit, but whatever.

42:08.500 --> 42:13.500 You know, at that point in time when MTV's coming out, you know, what you look like is

42:13.500 --> 42:15.500 at least as important as what you sound like.

42:15.500 --> 42:16.500 You know?

42:16.500 --> 42:17.500 Yes.

42:17.500 --> 42:18.500 For that time period.

42:18.500 --> 42:19.500 Absolutely.

42:19.500 --> 42:20.500 It's like, it was the trend setting.

42:20.500 --> 42:23.500 So that's why there's a store called Hot Topic.

42:23.500 --> 42:24.500 Exactly.

42:24.500 --> 42:29.500 You're sampling work in Portrait and obviously in Smells Like Children as well.

42:29.500 --> 42:32.500 Whose idea was it to sample from movies?

42:32.500 --> 42:33.500 Oh, I know.

42:33.500 --> 42:34.500 A lot of it was from TV shows.

42:34.500 --> 42:35.500 Or TV shows.

42:35.500 --> 42:36.500 Yes.

42:36.500 --> 42:37.500 Yeah.

42:37.500 --> 42:40.500 I would always watch all those shows about like, you know, the, that, that Green Bray

42:40.500 --> 42:45.500 Murders family in California is like the word, you know, like you say, you know, like fuck

42:45.500 --> 42:46.500 the pigs, kill them all.

42:46.500 --> 42:50.500 So anything that has something to do with Satan or drugs, I sampled that.

42:50.500 --> 42:53.500 I would fucking get, you know, get my shit out and see what it was like.

42:53.500 --> 42:55.500 Because before there was like, you could rewind TV.

42:55.500 --> 43:01.500 The only time I could, uh, VHS sitting in my, uh, recorder to watch all those like true crime

43:01.500 --> 43:04.500 shits or whatever was going on to record that crap.

43:04.500 --> 43:07.500 And, uh, you know, and if I couldn't record, I could try to find out what was playing again

43:07.500 --> 43:08.500 to go then record it.

43:08.500 --> 43:11.500 Trying to find anything that was just, you know, that went crazy.

43:11.500 --> 43:19.500 Like, you know, anything related to, you know, hallucinogens and mass murder or serial killing.

43:19.500 --> 43:22.500 That was, you know, target A.

43:22.500 --> 43:25.500 Now this was a really big question by the fans as well.

43:25.500 --> 43:29.500 Especially back in the day, the many different layers of sampling that you had.

43:29.500 --> 43:32.500 How did you recreate these sounds on stage?

43:32.500 --> 43:34.500 There's a thing called a sampler.

43:34.500 --> 43:38.500 I just assigned that sample to a button and then there it goes.

43:38.500 --> 43:39.500 Okay.

43:39.500 --> 43:40.500 Okay.

43:40.500 --> 43:46.500 What makes a sampler an amazing instrument, actually, is because once you convert something

43:46.500 --> 43:47.500 digitally, you know what I mean?

43:47.500 --> 43:49.500 Now that sound is zeros and ones, right?

43:49.500 --> 43:54.500 So you can move those zeros and ones around any way you want and get super glitchy.

43:54.500 --> 43:57.500 You put them forwards, put them backwards, slow them down, speed them up.

43:57.500 --> 44:01.500 And of course you're going to get some aliasing and weird effects, but that's what's kind of

44:01.500 --> 44:02.500 cool about it.

44:02.500 --> 44:06.500 So, you know, it's not, it's like, don't fight the medium, you know, work with it, you know?

44:06.500 --> 44:09.500 It's like, don't try to make watercolors with oil paints, you know?

44:09.500 --> 44:10.500 It smells like children.

44:10.500 --> 44:11.500 Was that recorded on the road?

44:11.500 --> 44:13.500 We did what we called, and this is after we had a fire.

44:13.500 --> 44:15.500 Brian was, God, it was fucked up.

44:15.500 --> 44:20.500 Because, um, everybody trying to improve from the airscope actually from nothing came to

44:20.500 --> 44:21.500 see a show.

44:21.500 --> 44:26.500 Uh, and Brian was so high again that he was just like, just all on stage.

44:26.500 --> 44:27.500 You couldn't play anything right.

44:27.500 --> 44:30.500 And he'd already died two times by this point in time.

44:30.500 --> 44:31.500 Oh.

44:31.500 --> 44:32.500 Seriously.

44:32.500 --> 44:34.500 I was there when he OD'd once a second time.

44:34.500 --> 44:37.500 He OD'd once on his birthday and, you know, found a bathroom needle hanging on his arm.

44:37.500 --> 44:40.500 He did the same thing with me at, like, Button South or something.

44:40.500 --> 44:43.500 And so he already died twice, which is pretty good.

44:43.500 --> 44:47.500 If you died twice and come back, you know, God's got a purpose for you.

44:47.500 --> 44:48.500 Right.

44:48.500 --> 44:51.500 But the third time was a charm when he moved to L.A. and died again.

44:51.500 --> 44:53.500 So, you know, I mean, what are you gonna do, dude?

44:53.500 --> 44:56.500 You do hair when you get what you get.

44:56.500 --> 45:00.500 I'm not trying to, like, blame him, but I'm like, he was so good when he got away from it.

45:00.500 --> 45:01.500 And then he got back into it.

45:01.500 --> 45:02.500 And, of course, he died again.

45:02.500 --> 45:07.500 And this time the third was the charm and he was nailed in the coffin, you know?

45:07.500 --> 45:09.500 But, yeah, that was the funniest part, though.

45:09.500 --> 45:11.500 It was like, yeah, he died twice in the band.

45:11.500 --> 45:13.500 That was the third time he died.

45:13.500 --> 45:14.500 It was the third and final time.

45:14.500 --> 45:15.500 You know?

45:15.500 --> 45:16.500 Oh, my God.

45:16.500 --> 45:17.500 That reminds me of the story.

45:17.500 --> 45:18.500 I'm gonna get in trouble for this.

45:18.500 --> 45:19.500 My mom's gonna hear it.

45:19.500 --> 45:20.500 My family's gonna hear it.

45:20.500 --> 45:23.500 But anyways, back in the day of cassettes and shit.

45:23.500 --> 45:25.500 And, uh, and again, he worked at Beaches.

45:25.500 --> 45:30.500 So we're playing, I think, cymbals in Palm Beach County somewhere.

45:30.500 --> 45:34.500 And it was my early days of the band where I could barely, I could still barely play,

45:34.500 --> 45:35.500 but I could really barely play that.

45:35.500 --> 45:37.500 I couldn't jump around and play.

45:37.500 --> 45:40.500 So, and we had, like, parents, parents, parents, faces.

45:40.500 --> 45:44.500 So Brad takes me somewhere in Lake Worth to go do something.

45:44.500 --> 45:47.500 I realized I'm in the middle of this very scary neighborhood,

45:47.500 --> 45:50.500 and he's buying, like, crack and heroin.

45:50.500 --> 45:51.500 I was like, dude, what the fuck, dude?

45:51.500 --> 45:52.500 You're gonna get me popped.

45:52.500 --> 45:54.500 Anyway, so we're on the way home.

45:54.500 --> 45:56.500 And I load a bowl of weed because we're about to get high.

45:56.500 --> 46:02.500 This is at a time when, like, Scott and Marilyn, no one else got high but me and Brad.

46:02.500 --> 46:03.500 We're, like, super high.

46:03.500 --> 46:04.500 I mean, like, drug high.

46:04.500 --> 46:09.500 So we're driving back, and Brad had stolen the Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique cassette

46:09.500 --> 46:12.500 from Peaches again, hence his firing.

46:12.500 --> 46:16.500 And we bring in the car, we're damming down I-95 South,

46:16.500 --> 46:19.500 coming from Lake Worth toward this bar in Boca, I think it was cymbals.

46:19.500 --> 46:23.500 And I take a hit, I'm like, what the fuck was that?

46:23.500 --> 46:25.500 Is it tasting weird?

46:25.500 --> 46:26.500 And next thing you know, I'm freaking out.

46:26.500 --> 46:27.500 He goes, he starts laughing.

46:27.500 --> 46:28.500 Hey, you just smoked crack.

46:28.500 --> 46:31.500 Brad, put a crack rock in the middle of the weed.

46:31.500 --> 46:33.500 Oh, my God!

46:33.500 --> 46:35.500 Like, 60 miles an hour and it hits me.

46:35.500 --> 46:36.500 Like, what the fuck?

46:36.500 --> 46:38.500 Dude, give me a heads up.

46:38.500 --> 46:40.500 And he's laughing his ass off.

46:40.500 --> 46:41.500 That's Brad.

46:41.500 --> 46:42.500 He was, I told you he was that cool.

46:42.500 --> 46:44.500 It was a party waiting to happen.

46:44.500 --> 46:45.500 Yeah, and I'm like, what the fuck?

46:45.500 --> 46:46.500 I do give it.

46:46.500 --> 46:48.500 He's just laughing, laughing, laughing.

46:48.500 --> 46:51.500 So we show up to the show, and like, and you know, everyone's like,

46:51.500 --> 46:52.500 where were you guys?

46:52.500 --> 46:54.500 Uh, uh, just getting some snacks.

46:54.500 --> 46:55.500 You know?

46:56.500 --> 46:58.500 Put it in between the layers of weed in a bowl,

46:58.500 --> 47:00.500 because it was my bowl, it was my weed.

47:00.500 --> 47:01.500 It's like, hey, smoke something.

47:01.500 --> 47:02.500 We're gonna head back to the venue.

47:02.500 --> 47:03.500 We'll smoke a little bit of weed.

47:03.500 --> 47:04.500 We'll drink a few beers.

47:04.500 --> 47:05.500 It'll be cool.

47:05.500 --> 47:07.500 It's like, oh, my God, this is delicious.

47:07.500 --> 47:09.500 So Smells Like Children was not done on the road.

47:09.500 --> 47:10.500 Where was it done?

47:10.500 --> 47:12.500 Oh, no, we did it in Bogalusa, Louisiana.

47:12.500 --> 47:13.500 Uh-huh.

47:13.500 --> 47:16.500 Because Trent didn't have a studio built yet in New Orleans.

47:16.500 --> 47:21.500 And then also up in New York, I think in Electric Ladyland, I'm not sure.

47:21.500 --> 47:25.500 All I remember is we stayed in a hotel and literally snorted bath salts.

47:25.500 --> 47:26.500 They weren't like the drug bath salts.

47:26.500 --> 47:30.500 But anyways, I remember, the part I remember the most is Jeanine Garofalo was staying in

47:30.500 --> 47:32.500 our hotel when she was at SNL.

47:32.500 --> 47:34.500 I said, oh my God, it's SNL people.

47:34.500 --> 47:35.500 I was like freaked out, you know?

47:35.500 --> 47:39.500 And then I remember outside of our hotel, there was like a, I don't mean to offend people,

47:39.500 --> 47:40.500 but fuck Scientology.

47:40.500 --> 47:41.500 Okay?

47:41.500 --> 47:46.500 So there's people outside of our hotel trying to give you those like, hey, get this in.

47:46.500 --> 47:50.500 You know, I do our e-meter, which is basically just a lie detector test to find.

47:50.500 --> 47:51.500 You know how those motherfuckers are.

47:51.500 --> 47:52.500 You know them.

47:52.500 --> 47:53.500 Oh, yeah.

47:53.500 --> 47:54.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

47:54.500 --> 47:57.500 So I was like, okay, I'll do this, but only at midnight on the solstice.

47:57.500 --> 47:59.500 I always wanted to come to my door.

47:59.500 --> 48:02.500 I'd be like, okay, I'll take your book.

48:02.500 --> 48:03.500 If you'll take mine.

48:03.500 --> 48:05.500 And then it seemed like, we'll both trade off.

48:05.500 --> 48:06.500 It was just pretty funny.

48:06.500 --> 48:08.500 And then they would never come back to your house again.

48:08.500 --> 48:10.500 That's how that, it's just win that argument right away.

48:10.500 --> 48:11.500 Right.

48:11.500 --> 48:15.500 As soon as you ask them to come to your meetings, they don't want to.

48:15.500 --> 48:22.500 Let's go into Antichrist, because this album obviously is groundbreaking in so many different ways.

48:22.500 --> 48:24.500 Fucking kick his ass and take names.

48:24.500 --> 48:28.500 This sound was so different than, like, especially your synth work.

48:28.500 --> 48:31.500 It was so different from the earlier stuff.

48:31.500 --> 48:33.500 I think it was more focused, to be honest.

48:33.500 --> 48:34.500 Yeah.

48:34.500 --> 48:35.500 You know what I mean?

48:35.500 --> 48:38.500 And so I showed them there was a lot of directions going there.

48:38.500 --> 48:42.500 That's what was cool about our early shit is that, you know, there wasn't a defined style.

48:42.500 --> 48:43.500 She could move in any direction.

48:43.500 --> 48:44.500 Exactly.

48:44.500 --> 48:45.500 Very fluid.

48:45.500 --> 48:49.500 But Antichrist was very focused for once, you know?

48:49.500 --> 48:52.500 And, like, a thematic sort of flow to the whole thing.

48:52.500 --> 48:54.500 I know you guys were in New Orleans.

48:54.500 --> 49:00.500 So, how did you capture those dark, eerie, especially in, like, Cryptor Kid?

49:00.500 --> 49:05.500 Oh, well, that was, actually, that was done, you know, on just, uh, my original K2000.

49:05.500 --> 49:06.500 Trent bought me.

49:06.500 --> 49:07.500 Oh, my God.

49:07.500 --> 49:08.500 Let's just go there.

49:08.500 --> 49:09.500 Okay?

49:09.500 --> 49:12.500 Trent is the only person who actually ever bought me gear.

49:12.500 --> 49:13.500 Wow.

49:13.500 --> 49:24.500 I was doing the Lunchbox single in Miami Beach, and he just gave me a K2000, which is like a $2500 piece of gear back in 1989.

49:24.500 --> 49:30.500 Because you would like this because, you know, you're into all that detailed, you know, menu-diving shit.

49:30.500 --> 49:31.500 Mm-hmm.

49:31.500 --> 49:33.500 So, he did, and it changed my life.

49:33.500 --> 49:34.500 You know, it really did.

49:34.500 --> 49:43.500 And the other thing about Trent that was funny, because when we were doing Down in the Park, which was the song I wanted, because everybody picked different songs on our jazz show for the record release.

49:43.500 --> 49:46.500 And those all showed up on Smells Like Children.

49:46.500 --> 49:48.500 I mean, not all of them, most of them.

49:48.500 --> 49:50.500 And you know what people never got to hear?

49:50.500 --> 49:54.500 We did an amazing version of Love & Rockets Mirror People.

49:54.500 --> 49:55.500 That shit, that was tits.

49:55.500 --> 49:59.500 Anyway, so he gave me that, and it really just changed my life, you know?

49:59.500 --> 50:07.500 The thing about him was, so we go in to record Down in the Park, and, because I used the pitchbender to do a theremin-type sound.

50:07.500 --> 50:11.500 And so the first take is, like, not very good, because, you know, I can't do it.

50:11.500 --> 50:12.500 Right?

50:12.500 --> 50:14.500 It takes a minute to get your shit right.

50:14.500 --> 50:16.500 So I go through the first take, I'm nervous, and he keeps it.

50:16.500 --> 50:17.500 I'm like, what the fuck?

50:17.500 --> 50:18.500 The second take was perfect.

50:18.500 --> 50:20.500 And he goes, I don't want perfect.

50:20.500 --> 50:21.500 Everything else is perfect.

50:21.500 --> 50:22.500 We need not perfect.

50:22.500 --> 50:23.500 Like, I can play it right.

50:23.500 --> 50:25.500 He goes, no, everything is just too tight.

50:25.500 --> 50:26.500 Something needs to be loose.

50:26.500 --> 50:27.500 You know?

50:27.500 --> 50:28.500 Trim was like that, man.

50:28.500 --> 50:35.500 He had a really, you know, a good idea of, like, what needed to be done in that place and time.

50:35.500 --> 50:39.500 Him and Michael Byung-Horn, far and away best producers I ever worked with.

50:39.500 --> 50:40.500 Easily.

50:40.500 --> 50:41.500 Yeah.

50:41.500 --> 50:44.500 You guys are just fantastic as producers.

50:44.500 --> 50:49.500 Was there any pushback for how heavily synth-focused Antichrist was, or was it encouraging?

50:49.500 --> 50:54.500 Now that you know, you know, Twiggy, Jordy, the band, I'm not sure how he wants to be referred

50:54.500 --> 50:55.500 to as.

50:55.500 --> 50:58.500 You know, some people, they don't like to be referred to their old stage names.

50:58.500 --> 51:00.500 I don't want to, like, you know, be insulting to him.

51:00.500 --> 51:04.500 But, uh, no, like, you know, he brought in a lot more metal.

51:04.500 --> 51:05.500 You know?

51:05.500 --> 51:06.500 Uh-huh.

51:06.500 --> 51:08.500 Which will tie it with, like, you know, Brian's metal and mine.

51:08.500 --> 51:10.500 But they were, like, later metal than me.

51:10.500 --> 51:11.500 I was more 70s metal.

51:11.500 --> 51:15.500 They were more, like, 80s metal, kind of, you know, a little bit later.

51:15.500 --> 51:18.500 Maybe five years later, because it's our age difference kind of stuff.

51:18.500 --> 51:19.500 It's a compliment.

51:19.500 --> 51:21.500 I remember I thought I wrote this amazing riff.

51:21.500 --> 51:22.500 Like, dude, they got this great new song.

51:22.500 --> 51:24.500 Like, dude, that's Iron Maiden.

51:24.500 --> 51:25.500 Like, I never listened to Iron Maiden.

51:25.500 --> 51:27.500 So they knew shit I didn't know.

51:27.500 --> 51:28.500 We knew shit they didn't know.

51:28.500 --> 51:30.500 So it was a lot of fun.

51:30.500 --> 51:33.500 But, uh, yeah, no, it kind of got that way when we were writing it.

51:33.500 --> 51:40.500 And then, uh, Trent came in and, um, kind of focused it a lot more in a way that was really

51:40.500 --> 51:41.500 good.

51:41.500 --> 51:42.500 Somebody's Sean Bevin.

51:42.500 --> 51:43.500 He's really undersung.

51:43.500 --> 51:48.500 That guy did so myself for, uh, everything in Nails and Us.

51:48.500 --> 51:55.500 So Sean Bevin is really a key ingredient in both Antichrist and, uh, mechanical animals.

51:55.500 --> 51:56.500 He really was.

51:56.500 --> 51:57.500 He really was.

51:57.500 --> 51:58.500 And it's the same thing.

51:58.500 --> 52:01.500 I mean, all those guys, Danny Loner, uh, Chris Verlano.

52:01.500 --> 52:06.500 I mean, uh, those guys were, they've got, they're all pro tools like wizards.

52:06.500 --> 52:09.500 And they, and they all were like very flexible and good.

52:09.500 --> 52:12.500 I'm saying we were just so lucky to have people like that around us.

52:12.500 --> 52:17.500 So, and also what came with Antichrist is obviously the iconic Dead to the World tour.

52:17.500 --> 52:20.500 Do you have any core memories of that tour?

52:20.500 --> 52:22.500 No, I was high at the time.

52:22.500 --> 52:24.500 Concurrent and correct and like focused.

52:24.500 --> 52:25.500 Like I said.

52:25.500 --> 52:26.500 Yes.

52:26.500 --> 52:31.500 Be all about myself with like focused, but yeah, it seemed to have a much more consistent theme

52:31.500 --> 52:32.500 throughout the whole thing.

52:32.500 --> 52:33.500 Yes.

52:33.500 --> 52:35.500 Let's talk about mechanical animals.

52:35.500 --> 52:38.500 Now that is just a sound out of this world.

52:38.500 --> 52:40.500 That's your favorite record?

52:40.500 --> 52:41.500 Fuck yeah.

52:41.500 --> 52:43.500 I've seen it a billion times online.

52:43.500 --> 52:46.500 Steven, that, that is a you as fuck record.

52:46.500 --> 52:47.500 And it's so amazing.

52:47.500 --> 52:50.500 I thought that was one thing that was really fun about us.

52:50.500 --> 52:53.500 Because again, portraits, nothing like smells.

52:53.500 --> 52:55.500 Smells was nothing Antichrist.

52:55.500 --> 52:57.500 And Antichrist was nothing like mechanical.

52:57.500 --> 52:58.500 So that's the thing.

52:58.500 --> 53:00.500 When they say zig-wee-zag, you know what I mean?

53:00.500 --> 53:01.500 You tack into the wind.

53:01.500 --> 53:03.500 You do what they don't expect you to do.

53:03.500 --> 53:05.500 And there were so many fans being pissed off.

53:05.500 --> 53:07.500 Like, what is this homo shit about?

53:07.500 --> 53:08.500 Remember?

53:08.500 --> 53:09.500 They were like that.

53:09.500 --> 53:10.500 Oh, I remember.

53:10.500 --> 53:12.500 I remember hearing that kind of shit.

53:12.500 --> 53:14.500 You know, I'm gay positive as fuck, man.

53:14.500 --> 53:17.500 I wish more people were gay would save me some women.

53:17.500 --> 53:23.500 That sound is just so, like you said, it's so stark from Antichrist.

53:23.500 --> 53:26.500 How did you guys decide to do that?

53:26.500 --> 53:28.500 Well, no, it was Barry Bowie, man.

53:28.500 --> 53:29.500 Yeah.

53:29.500 --> 53:33.500 Most Bowie-esque, Bowie-ish, I've ever been to define that adjective.

53:33.500 --> 53:36.500 Michael Beinhorn, he gave you such huge praise when we interviewed him.

53:36.500 --> 53:39.500 Sean Beckham went and did the demos with us.

53:39.500 --> 53:40.500 Okay.

53:40.500 --> 53:47.500 The house that Manson and Twiggy lived in, up in Laurel Canyon.

53:47.500 --> 53:52.500 Like, right down the street from like, God, who are those guys?

53:52.500 --> 53:54.500 I can't remember.

53:54.500 --> 53:57.500 There's guys just up the street, Laurel Canyon from us.

53:57.500 --> 53:59.500 They played with us on Jon Stewart.

53:59.500 --> 54:01.500 They had that handsome guy.

54:01.500 --> 54:02.500 I can't remember.

54:02.500 --> 54:05.500 He's too much, he's too pretty to be in rock.

54:05.500 --> 54:09.500 So this was a house apparently that Dean Martin had rented at some point in time.

54:09.500 --> 54:12.500 And that, um, we recorded the shit there.

54:12.500 --> 54:13.500 It was really good.

54:13.500 --> 54:14.500 We had a really good time with it.

54:14.500 --> 54:18.500 And the demos are really close to the, what came out on the record.

54:18.500 --> 54:21.500 Uh, Devin, Sean Bevin was able to capture it.

54:21.500 --> 54:22.500 It was really good.

54:22.500 --> 54:25.500 And that's when Billy Corrigan started coming in the scene.

54:25.500 --> 54:26.500 And here's the weird thing I get.

54:26.500 --> 54:29.500 People give me this shit, like, I'm against Billy Corrigan.

54:29.500 --> 54:32.500 Like, no, that guy was a dick to me, like, the first three times I met him.

54:32.500 --> 54:33.500 You know?

54:33.500 --> 54:34.500 He's in interviews with Jon Five.

54:34.500 --> 54:37.500 He's all, like, professional and nice and sweet.

54:37.500 --> 54:39.500 Where I met him, he was a douche.

54:39.500 --> 54:44.500 No, he literally came up to me and tried to explain to me how the car's got that keyboard sound.

54:44.500 --> 54:45.500 I'm like, yeah, I know.

54:45.500 --> 54:46.500 You sync the oscillators.

54:46.500 --> 54:47.500 Okay, yeah, thank you.

54:47.500 --> 54:50.500 But thank you, guitar player, for instructing me on keyboards.

54:50.500 --> 54:51.500 Thank you.

54:51.500 --> 54:53.500 Do you feel the hate silken is there?

54:53.500 --> 54:56.500 So you and Michael Beinhorn love each other, clearly.

54:56.500 --> 55:03.500 A lot of guys who are good engineers and producers, they tend, they sometimes, like, get gigs when they can't be in the studio to do live sound.

55:03.500 --> 55:05.500 And live sound will blow your ears out.

55:05.500 --> 55:06.500 I mean, it's so loud.

55:06.500 --> 55:10.500 He can hear shit that no one else I've ever known can hear.

55:10.500 --> 55:11.500 Nobody.

55:11.500 --> 55:13.500 He can hear the most subtlest of things.

55:13.500 --> 55:20.500 Until you're seeing it, it's like meeting somebody with, like, incredible balance or vision or, like, he just has a natural superpower.

55:20.500 --> 55:23.500 His ears are, like, perfect.

55:23.500 --> 55:25.500 I do have to agree with that.

55:25.500 --> 55:27.500 I feel like he's almost superhuman.

55:27.500 --> 55:28.500 He is.

55:28.500 --> 55:29.500 He fucking is.

55:29.500 --> 55:30.500 He's the nicest guy.

55:30.500 --> 55:32.500 He will tell you all his shit.

55:32.500 --> 55:33.500 You know what I mean?

55:33.500 --> 55:35.500 What he does and how he gets it.

55:35.500 --> 55:40.500 If you're able to understand what he's doing, because he's very complicated and intense with his abilities.

55:40.500 --> 55:42.500 And that's the thing that kind of made me pissed off.

55:42.500 --> 55:44.500 I want to go here right now.

55:44.500 --> 55:45.500 I don't give a fuck.

55:45.500 --> 55:47.500 Okay, so we're doing Antichrist.

55:47.500 --> 55:51.500 Antichrist, and we bring in Dave Rave Ogilvie, who did Skinny Puppy.

55:51.500 --> 55:57.500 And I remember some person, when you put up your post, like, you know, Pogo's gonna do this shit on fucking our podcast.

55:57.500 --> 56:01.500 This guy's like, well, I love you guys, but I love Skinny Puppy and Frontline Semi.

56:01.500 --> 56:02.500 Fuck Skinny Puppy.

56:02.500 --> 56:04.500 They're so overrated.

56:04.500 --> 56:08.500 Like, some things are fucking, they shit out fucking gold bricks or something.

56:08.500 --> 56:09.500 You know?

56:09.500 --> 56:10.500 I think they're just over fucking rated.

56:10.500 --> 56:11.500 They're good.

56:11.500 --> 56:12.500 So Dave Rave Ogilvie did it.

56:12.500 --> 56:13.500 You know what he did?

56:13.500 --> 56:15.500 We're in Trent's fucking studio.

56:15.500 --> 56:16.500 I swear to God.

56:16.500 --> 56:17.500 Okay.

56:17.500 --> 56:20.500 And now he wants to do his Skinny Puppy trick.

56:20.500 --> 56:21.500 In quotes.

56:21.500 --> 56:22.500 I swear to God.

56:22.500 --> 56:24.500 I'm doing air quotes right now with my hands.

56:24.500 --> 56:25.500 Okay.

56:25.500 --> 56:28.500 So he goes in there, and he doesn't let us in the room to see it.

56:28.500 --> 56:29.500 You know what that tells me?

56:29.500 --> 56:31.500 That tells me you're a fucking charlatan.

56:31.500 --> 56:33.500 When you can do that shit, you want me to see what you're doing?

56:33.500 --> 56:35.500 Because someone who's actually really good will find a new trick.

56:35.500 --> 56:36.500 You know what I mean?

56:36.500 --> 56:37.500 I'll show you my old trick.

56:37.500 --> 56:38.500 I'll get a new trick.

56:38.500 --> 56:40.500 They only hit their own one trick pony.

56:40.500 --> 56:44.500 I felt that about Dave Rave Ogilvie, and I don't give a fuck what he says.

56:44.500 --> 56:45.500 I love the dude as a person.

56:45.500 --> 56:47.500 His wife's a bitch, though.

56:47.500 --> 56:48.500 Steven, here we go.

56:48.500 --> 56:49.500 All right.

56:49.500 --> 56:50.500 I'm just saying.

56:50.500 --> 56:53.500 Well, since you're on a roll here, we have to get serious here.

56:53.500 --> 56:59.500 Because, listen, we got so much shit for this, and you hopefully can clear this up for us.

56:59.500 --> 57:04.500 Because, as you know, we interviewed Michael Beinhorn, and everybody wanted to know about Zim Zom.

57:04.500 --> 57:09.500 But he answered the question, because everybody wanted to know exactly what he contributed on.

57:09.500 --> 57:13.500 And Michael Beinhorn said not really anything.

57:13.500 --> 57:15.500 And nobody believes that.

57:15.500 --> 57:18.500 Dude, he simply did like one or two solos.

57:18.500 --> 57:19.500 Occasionally.

57:19.500 --> 57:20.500 Okay.

57:20.500 --> 57:21.500 Michael Beinhorn is correct.

57:21.500 --> 57:22.500 He speaks the truth.

57:22.500 --> 57:23.500 Thank you.

57:23.500 --> 57:24.500 Okay.

57:24.500 --> 57:26.500 So can you please say that one more time?

57:26.500 --> 57:28.500 Michael Beinhorn speaks the truth.

57:28.500 --> 57:29.500 Okay.

57:29.500 --> 57:31.500 So Zim Zom did not have much to do with the record.

57:31.500 --> 57:32.500 What did he record?

57:32.500 --> 57:33.500 Nothing?

57:33.500 --> 57:34.500 Some solos.

57:34.500 --> 57:37.500 He was too coked out of time.

57:37.500 --> 57:41.500 And that's why, because he was my roommate.

57:41.500 --> 57:44.500 He and I lived in the same apartment in Hollywood.

57:44.500 --> 57:45.500 Uh-huh.

57:45.500 --> 57:51.500 And so what we did is we saved every liquor and beer bottle and whiskey bottle and wine bottle we drank,

57:51.500 --> 57:53.500 and it filled up an entire bedroom.

57:53.500 --> 57:56.500 Like, literally, like, three feet tall to the ceiling.

57:56.500 --> 57:57.500 Dude shit.

57:57.500 --> 58:00.500 And here's what I found when shit was fuck it with him.

58:00.500 --> 58:02.500 Because at the end of the day, like, there's drug etiquette.

58:02.500 --> 58:06.500 I come from Florida from the, you know, 70s and 80s, where you learn drug etiquette.

58:06.500 --> 58:07.500 You know what I mean?

58:07.500 --> 58:08.500 Mm-hmm.

58:08.500 --> 58:10.500 You never do the first line of coke.

58:10.500 --> 58:12.500 You never do the biggest line of coke.

58:12.500 --> 58:13.500 You always give that to others.

58:13.500 --> 58:17.500 It's like, you know, when you're, when you're paying for meals and stuff or tipping properly.

58:17.500 --> 58:18.500 That kind of shit.

58:18.500 --> 58:21.500 There's courtesy and etiquette and everything.

58:21.500 --> 58:22.500 Even in hard drugs.

58:22.500 --> 58:23.500 You know?

58:23.500 --> 58:24.500 Mm-hmm.

58:24.500 --> 58:25.500 Mm-hmm.

58:25.500 --> 58:26.500 And he didn't have that shit.

58:26.500 --> 58:27.500 He didn't have it, man.

58:27.500 --> 58:30.500 So, one time, he comes back, I give him fucking money.

58:30.500 --> 58:32.500 And he comes back, goes, oh, the guy shorted me.

58:32.500 --> 58:35.500 And I call the fucking dealer, he's like, no, I didn't.

58:35.500 --> 58:37.500 I know the dealer way better than him.

58:37.500 --> 58:39.500 And it was he, he shorted me.

58:39.500 --> 58:40.500 He shorted me.

58:40.500 --> 58:41.500 He shorted us.

58:41.500 --> 58:43.500 And I knew he was a fucking liar.

58:43.500 --> 58:49.500 So then, literally like, um, four weeks later, uh, during this time when we're doing, uh,

58:49.500 --> 58:54.500 uh, mechanical animals or whatever, this guy comes around, have a look at this, you know,

58:54.500 --> 58:55.500 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

58:55.500 --> 58:56.500 Like, all that.

58:56.500 --> 58:58.500 And I put on like a, a fake African-American voice.

58:58.500 --> 58:59.500 I know that's offensive.

58:59.500 --> 59:04.500 But I, I want it to be as scary sounding as possible.

59:04.500 --> 59:06.500 For me, that's a more scary sounding voice.

59:06.500 --> 59:07.500 I know that's wrong.

59:07.500 --> 59:08.500 I'm not saying it's right.

59:08.500 --> 59:09.500 It's totally wrong.

59:09.500 --> 59:12.500 Hey, man, I'm just gonna go for a fucking, you know, whatever word.

59:12.500 --> 59:13.500 It's not that it's fair.

59:13.500 --> 59:14.500 It's, it's totally wrong.

59:14.500 --> 59:20.500 But everybody knows, like, I don't know about you, but you know, that's one way to deter

59:20.500 --> 59:23.500 a white drug dealer is a scary black man.

59:23.500 --> 59:24.500 Let me know.

59:24.500 --> 59:25.500 It's a, it's a, it's a true thing.

59:25.500 --> 59:26.500 So I did that.

59:26.500 --> 59:28.500 And again, this is so wrong.

59:28.500 --> 59:32.500 So then the guy comes to the door, he gets his way up and pounds on the door.

59:32.500 --> 59:36.500 So I had one of those Japanese, I had several Japanese soft pellet rifles.

59:36.500 --> 59:40.500 I mean, they look like real fucking guns, like MP5s and AK-47s.

59:40.500 --> 59:42.500 So this guy, guy rolls up the door.

59:42.500 --> 59:45.500 Cause apparently Sims, I'm owed him a whole bunch of money.

59:45.500 --> 59:46.500 Oh shit.

59:46.500 --> 59:47.500 Right.

59:47.500 --> 59:50.500 So the guy was open the door and I pointed at him and I cocked the fucking thing.

59:50.500 --> 59:51.500 I pointed at him.

59:51.500 --> 59:52.500 I go, you got a problem, boy?

59:52.500 --> 59:53.500 You got a problem?

59:53.500 --> 59:54.500 You got a problem?

59:54.500 --> 59:55.500 Problem?

59:55.500 --> 59:57.500 And he fucking walks away.

59:57.500 --> 59:59.500 I go, you don't fucking fuck with me.

59:59.500 --> 01:00:00.500 You gotta find your boy, man.

01:00:00.500 --> 01:00:01.500 Ain't me.

01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:05.500 Like they say in that Christian cliche, you know, every saint has a past and every sinner

01:00:05.500 --> 01:00:06.500 has a future.

01:00:06.500 --> 01:00:09.500 I was paying him and he was inching my thatch.

01:00:09.500 --> 01:00:10.500 Oh.

01:00:10.500 --> 01:00:11.500 That was me.

01:00:11.500 --> 01:00:12.500 That was me.

01:00:12.500 --> 01:00:14.500 Bro, you have no etiquette, man.

01:00:14.500 --> 01:00:15.500 You're a drug cool.

01:00:15.500 --> 01:00:16.500 You know?

01:00:16.500 --> 01:00:19.500 And that's an important thing in the drug world, man.

01:00:19.500 --> 01:00:21.500 Being cool, being honest, you know what I mean?

01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:23.500 Because that's the difference between us and Johnny Lall, man.

01:00:23.500 --> 01:00:24.500 You know?

01:00:24.500 --> 01:00:29.500 Yeah, I'm calling Zim Zim a goddamn drug fucking stealing motherfucker.

01:00:29.500 --> 01:00:31.500 Didn't do shit on that record.

01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:32.500 Yeah, that's me.

01:00:32.500 --> 01:00:36.500 Also, Michael Bonhorn straight up said Zimmy did nothing.

01:00:36.500 --> 01:00:40.500 He did a few solos on occasion, you know?

01:00:40.500 --> 01:00:43.500 But again, he's trying to like, in retrospect now, like claim credit.

01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:46.500 See, before I'd be cool to him, I'd be like, yeah, man, you did a great job.

01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:49.500 But now he's trying to be like, I made that record.

01:00:49.500 --> 01:00:50.500 Go fuck yourself, bitch.

01:00:50.500 --> 01:00:51.500 Piss.

01:00:51.500 --> 01:00:53.500 Because if he was just honest, that'd be one thing.

01:00:53.500 --> 01:00:55.500 You think you're going to get all self-aggrandizing?

01:00:55.500 --> 01:00:56.500 Oh, dude.

01:00:56.500 --> 01:00:58.500 Come and fucking face me.

01:00:58.500 --> 01:01:03.500 Okay, so now that we have settled that, I hope everyone hears that.

01:01:03.500 --> 01:01:06.500 So let's move on to Holywood.

01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:10.500 Now that was after a very dark time after Columbine.

01:01:10.500 --> 01:01:13.500 Can you explain how you guys navigated through that?

01:01:13.500 --> 01:01:15.500 I'll tell you a couple of things about that.

01:01:15.500 --> 01:01:16.500 Okay.

01:01:16.500 --> 01:01:19.500 I think the first actually pure gothic record,

01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:20.500 Yes.

01:01:20.500 --> 01:01:21.500 Okay.

01:01:21.500 --> 01:01:24.500 And you, I think John Five got ripped off on that.

01:01:24.500 --> 01:01:25.500 Oh.

01:01:25.500 --> 01:01:26.500 He did amazing things.

01:01:26.500 --> 01:01:28.500 I tried to tell him this when he first joined it.

01:01:28.500 --> 01:01:29.500 He thought I was hazing him.

01:01:29.500 --> 01:01:34.500 I was trying to let him know like, look, dude, once you create a formula that lets you win,

01:01:34.500 --> 01:01:35.500 they will change the formula.

01:01:35.500 --> 01:01:37.500 I felt bad for him on that.

01:01:37.500 --> 01:01:38.500 He did amazing shit.

01:01:38.500 --> 01:01:40.500 How was the mood of the band though?

01:01:40.500 --> 01:01:42.500 You guys had to really overcome some serious shit.

01:01:42.500 --> 01:01:43.500 Tell him what?

01:01:43.500 --> 01:01:46.500 You know, Pete ain't fucking famous and rich.

01:01:46.500 --> 01:01:48.500 What the fuck is hard to overcome?

01:01:48.500 --> 01:01:51.500 So the whole Columbine thing didn't really affect you guys?

01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:52.500 Nothing.

01:01:52.500 --> 01:01:53.500 It made you guys cooler?

01:01:53.500 --> 01:01:54.500 Is that what you said?

01:01:54.500 --> 01:01:55.500 Me?

01:01:55.500 --> 01:01:56.500 Yeah.

01:01:56.500 --> 01:01:59.500 We know those motherfuckers became MTM fans.

01:01:59.500 --> 01:02:00.500 Yes.

01:02:00.500 --> 01:02:01.500 True.

01:02:01.500 --> 01:02:02.500 Anything else you would like to say about Hollywood?

01:02:02.500 --> 01:02:04.500 It's thrown on me.

01:02:04.500 --> 01:02:05.500 Mm-hmm.

01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:08.500 Ridley was not so fond of it, but it's become better over time.

01:02:08.500 --> 01:02:09.500 It's aged well.

01:02:09.500 --> 01:02:13.500 That was the first time you guys were all together to all write together, right?

01:02:13.500 --> 01:02:17.500 No, I don't think y'all have this idea like what writing is.

01:02:17.500 --> 01:02:18.500 Okay.

01:02:18.500 --> 01:02:19.500 Yeah.

01:02:19.500 --> 01:02:23.500 They come in together in different ways and they combine in different ways.

01:02:23.500 --> 01:02:26.500 And there's not one formulaic way to write.

01:02:26.500 --> 01:02:29.500 And if you do have formulaic writing, that sucks.

01:02:29.500 --> 01:02:30.500 Mm-hmm.

01:02:30.500 --> 01:02:31.500 Sure.

01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:33.500 So it should be organic.

01:02:33.500 --> 01:02:34.500 The process should be organic.

01:02:34.500 --> 01:02:36.500 It's not a fucking formula.

01:02:36.500 --> 01:02:37.500 It's not a factory.

01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:38.500 Right.

01:02:38.500 --> 01:02:39.500 If it was, it would suck.

01:02:39.500 --> 01:02:40.500 Right.

01:02:40.500 --> 01:02:42.500 It would sound like Guns N' Roses.

01:02:42.500 --> 01:02:43.500 Yeah.

01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:45.500 And we, yeah, we don't need more of that.

01:02:45.500 --> 01:02:48.500 Slash is one of the nicest people you will ever meet.

01:02:48.500 --> 01:02:50.500 And you know who's the best person I've ever met in rock and roll?

01:02:50.500 --> 01:02:51.500 Lenny Kravitz.

01:02:51.500 --> 01:02:55.500 He's the nicest dude you will ever meet in your fucking life in rock and roll.

01:02:55.500 --> 01:02:56.500 I promise you.

01:02:56.500 --> 01:02:57.500 I love him.

01:02:57.500 --> 01:02:58.500 I do too.

01:02:58.500 --> 01:02:59.500 I want to bear his shirt.

01:02:59.500 --> 01:03:02.500 He just seems so down to earth.

01:03:02.500 --> 01:03:03.500 He's playing a show.

01:03:03.500 --> 01:03:05.500 We're watching him behind the speaker.

01:03:05.500 --> 01:03:08.500 He comes over and say, hey, can I get you a beer?

01:03:08.500 --> 01:03:11.500 Well, we're watching him behind the speakers on stage.

01:03:11.500 --> 01:03:12.500 That's that guy.

01:03:12.500 --> 01:03:17.500 I don't need to use this word in a bad way, but I want to say he's the most Christian soul

01:03:17.500 --> 01:03:18.500 I've met in rock.

01:03:18.500 --> 01:03:20.500 He loves his enemies.

01:03:20.500 --> 01:03:22.500 He wants to help others.

01:03:22.500 --> 01:03:24.500 He wants to do that shit.

01:03:24.500 --> 01:03:26.500 He's the sweetest man.

01:03:26.500 --> 01:03:30.500 I swear to God, I would dream of being in a band with that guy.

01:03:30.500 --> 01:03:33.500 I would love for that to happen.

01:03:33.500 --> 01:03:37.500 The last album you contributed on was Golden Age of Grotesque.

01:03:37.500 --> 01:03:39.500 And that's when Tim Scold was brought in.

01:03:39.500 --> 01:03:41.500 How was working with Tim?

01:03:41.500 --> 01:03:43.500 It was amazingly funny.

01:03:43.500 --> 01:03:45.500 You guys had like a good working relationship, right?

01:03:45.500 --> 01:03:46.500 I love that guy, man.

01:03:46.500 --> 01:03:48.500 We were fucking roommates on the tour, man.

01:03:48.500 --> 01:03:49.500 That's what we did, man.

01:03:49.500 --> 01:03:50.500 I love that guy.

01:03:50.500 --> 01:03:51.500 He has the most dry.

01:03:51.500 --> 01:03:55.500 Swedes have such a dry sense of humor.

01:03:55.500 --> 01:03:56.500 Really dark, too.

01:03:56.500 --> 01:03:57.500 It's beautiful.

01:03:57.500 --> 01:03:58.500 I love it.

01:03:58.500 --> 01:04:04.500 So, thinking back on the albums, I think you actually already answered this, but just in case.

01:04:04.500 --> 01:04:09.500 Is there any album or albums that you feel push the envelope the most of your talents?

01:04:09.500 --> 01:04:10.500 For me?

01:04:10.500 --> 01:04:11.500 Really?

01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:12.500 Yeah.

01:04:12.500 --> 01:04:13.500 Mm-hmm.

01:04:13.500 --> 01:04:16.500 Feinhorn, you may go back and play shit like nine times.

01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:17.500 I know you can do it.

01:04:17.500 --> 01:04:18.500 Okay.

01:04:18.500 --> 01:04:21.500 And I'm like, oh, no, I don't want to do it, master.

01:04:21.500 --> 01:04:24.500 I didn't say that word, but that's what my head said that word.

01:04:24.500 --> 01:04:27.500 But he did, because he wanted that good take.

01:04:27.500 --> 01:04:28.500 Right.

01:04:28.500 --> 01:04:32.500 Again, he has the best ears of any human being I've ever met.

01:04:32.500 --> 01:04:40.500 He can hear every chord, note, sound, intonation, the interference patterns between them.

01:04:40.500 --> 01:04:41.500 It's just amazing.

01:04:41.500 --> 01:04:46.500 You've never, because most people have, like, done live shows, so it blows their ears out.

01:04:46.500 --> 01:04:47.500 You know what I mean?

01:04:47.500 --> 01:04:48.500 Mm-hmm.

01:04:48.500 --> 01:04:49.500 Feinhorn does not.

01:04:49.500 --> 01:04:51.500 That guy, he's a god who walks among us.

01:04:51.500 --> 01:04:53.500 I love him as a producer.

01:04:53.500 --> 01:04:54.500 I do.

01:04:54.500 --> 01:04:55.500 And he really is.

01:04:55.500 --> 01:04:59.500 He just, again, him and Trent, just beyond amazing.

01:04:59.500 --> 01:05:01.500 I mean, Dave Sardi is amazing, too.

01:05:01.500 --> 01:05:04.500 But still, those two guys are a little bit above.

01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:05.500 Now, let me ask you this.

01:05:05.500 --> 01:05:10.500 Have you ever thought about working with other musicians for their albums or even movie scores?

01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:12.500 Fuck yes, just pay me.

01:05:12.500 --> 01:05:15.500 I don't work for fucking free, because that's time.

01:05:15.500 --> 01:05:18.500 The time I spend with my family, my wife and kid.

01:05:18.500 --> 01:05:20.500 It's not like I'm trying to be greedy.

01:05:20.500 --> 01:05:25.500 I'm just trying to say, why should I give up shit I can make money at for fucking shit I can't?

01:05:25.500 --> 01:05:26.500 You know what I mean?

01:05:26.500 --> 01:05:27.500 Right.

01:05:27.500 --> 01:05:28.500 Of course.

01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:29.500 Fuck off.

01:05:29.500 --> 01:05:30.500 Less fans.

01:05:30.500 --> 01:05:33.500 What is your relationship like now with Manson?

01:05:33.500 --> 01:05:34.500 Dude, he texted me.

01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:35.500 He texted me last night.

01:05:35.500 --> 01:05:37.500 We're tight as fuck.

01:05:37.500 --> 01:05:38.500 I mean, not tight as fuck.

01:05:38.500 --> 01:05:39.500 We're pretty good.

01:05:39.500 --> 01:05:40.500 Yeah.

01:05:40.500 --> 01:05:41.500 Good.

01:05:41.500 --> 01:05:45.500 I don't know his point of view, but for me, I feel tight as fuck with him again.

01:05:45.500 --> 01:05:47.500 Because we always were a friend.

01:05:47.500 --> 01:05:51.500 I mean, don't you know, like, if you ever really love that person as a friend or partner

01:05:51.500 --> 01:05:54.500 or whatever, that part is always there.

01:05:54.500 --> 01:05:55.500 Yeah.

01:05:55.500 --> 01:06:00.500 And so that's why when you get in fights, they're actually like more aggressive and delicious

01:06:00.500 --> 01:06:02.500 because you felt betrayed.

01:06:02.500 --> 01:06:03.500 Mm-hmm.

01:06:03.500 --> 01:06:06.500 So I'm so happy for him.

01:06:06.500 --> 01:06:10.500 I'm so happy that he's getting back to who he was.

01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:14.500 He's a very witty, a very fun person to be around.

01:06:14.500 --> 01:06:19.500 You know, I'm so glad that we can be together again in this way.

01:06:19.500 --> 01:06:21.500 Oh, I'm getting choked up.

01:06:21.500 --> 01:06:26.500 I've definitely said you two have one of the most special bonds.

01:06:26.500 --> 01:06:32.500 I think I've ever had the pleasure to kind of see you two rekindle.

01:06:32.500 --> 01:06:34.500 And I think it's so special.

01:06:34.500 --> 01:06:38.500 If I like Keanu and Abel and they can love each other like others.

01:06:38.500 --> 01:06:39.500 Absolutely.

01:06:39.500 --> 01:06:40.500 Yeah.

01:06:40.500 --> 01:06:41.500 Women, I don't think you get this.

01:06:41.500 --> 01:06:42.500 My wife kind of gets this.

01:06:42.500 --> 01:06:45.500 I'm not saying you don't, but she kind of gets this.

01:06:45.500 --> 01:06:50.500 Like, you know, men have to do certain things differently than y'all have to do as women.

01:06:50.500 --> 01:06:54.500 Because if a woman, like, at least my wife says this.

01:06:54.500 --> 01:06:55.500 I'm not saying it's true.

01:06:55.500 --> 01:06:56.500 I'm not a woman.

01:06:58.500 --> 01:07:02.500 But you know, when you confront them, it creates only more animosity.

01:07:02.500 --> 01:07:05.500 When men confront men, it creates respect.

01:07:06.500 --> 01:07:07.500 It does.

01:07:07.500 --> 01:07:08.500 Yeah, absolutely.

01:07:08.500 --> 01:07:09.500 How was your family life been?

01:07:09.500 --> 01:07:15.500 And what have you learned from it that your previous life wouldn't have taught you?

01:07:15.500 --> 01:07:17.500 Family life then.

01:07:17.500 --> 01:07:18.500 Okay.

01:07:18.500 --> 01:07:19.500 I have one now.

01:07:19.500 --> 01:07:20.500 Uh-huh.

01:07:20.500 --> 01:07:23.500 And the thing is that it gets you out of yourself.

01:07:23.500 --> 01:07:24.500 It reduces ego.

01:07:24.500 --> 01:07:26.500 It makes it more about helping others.

01:07:26.500 --> 01:07:27.500 Mm-hmm.

01:07:27.500 --> 01:07:28.500 You know?

01:07:28.500 --> 01:07:33.500 Because when you're in a family, you care about your wife and your child or children.

01:07:33.500 --> 01:07:34.500 You know what I mean?

01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:35.500 Mm-hmm.

01:07:35.500 --> 01:07:38.500 So it becomes a lot less self-centered.

01:07:38.500 --> 01:07:48.500 Generally speaking, artistic endeavors, be it in music or visual arts or whatever, to be kind of selfish because you're trying to express yourself.

01:07:48.500 --> 01:07:49.500 Right?

01:07:49.500 --> 01:07:55.500 So here it kind of reminds you, like, look, man, motherfucker, this is more important than that.

01:07:55.500 --> 01:07:56.500 You know?

01:07:56.500 --> 01:08:10.500 It's your job to kind of realize how much other people need you and how much you need them and how much you should adjust your behavior accordingly.

01:08:10.500 --> 01:08:11.500 Mm-hmm.

01:08:11.500 --> 01:08:12.500 Oh, Steven.

01:08:12.500 --> 01:08:13.500 Thank you so much.

01:08:13.500 --> 01:08:15.500 Is there anything else you would like to say?

01:08:15.500 --> 01:08:29.500 Fucking listen to Emil and Spiffer or Topical Fuckstorm or Mannequin Pussy or Church of Cosmic Skull or Telekinic Yeti or goddamn Red Fang.

01:08:29.500 --> 01:08:30.500 Let me go down the list.

01:08:30.500 --> 01:08:32.500 Or Mars Red Sky.

01:08:32.500 --> 01:08:33.500 There's so many.

01:08:33.500 --> 01:08:34.500 Oh, my God.

01:08:34.500 --> 01:08:35.500 It's the best part.

01:08:35.500 --> 01:08:40.500 I work with young people, so they constantly show me shit I don't know.

01:08:40.500 --> 01:08:43.500 Because old people don't know shit, I swear to God.

01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:45.500 People in my generation don't know fuck about fuck.

01:08:45.500 --> 01:08:47.500 And you love Wind Hand, too.

01:08:47.500 --> 01:08:53.500 Oh, please, Jesus Christ, can I just fucking see them?

01:08:53.500 --> 01:08:55.500 Can I just hang out with them?

01:08:55.500 --> 01:08:57.500 Can I just help them?

01:08:57.500 --> 01:09:00.500 Goddamn Wind Hand is one of my favorite things ever.

01:09:00.500 --> 01:09:04.500 Steven, I'm going to have to figure out how to get you to see Wind Hand.

01:09:04.500 --> 01:09:06.500 I'm going to figure it out.

01:09:06.500 --> 01:09:08.500 That shit is amazing.

01:09:08.500 --> 01:09:12.500 Steven, this has been amazing.

01:09:12.500 --> 01:09:14.500 Thank you so much for all your input.

01:09:14.500 --> 01:09:15.500 We'll stay in touch, I promise.

01:09:15.500 --> 01:09:16.500 Thank you.

01:09:16.500 --> 01:09:23.500 Well, there you guys go with the probably most exclusive interview we'll ever have with Steven Baer,

01:09:23.500 --> 01:09:27.500 a.k.a. Madonna Wayne Gacy slash Pogo.

01:09:27.500 --> 01:09:28.500 That was incredible.

01:09:28.500 --> 01:09:29.500 Just unreal.

01:09:29.500 --> 01:09:34.500 I really hope this reaches like a wide range of people.

01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:36.500 I mean, this is 2026.

01:09:36.500 --> 01:09:42.500 And I know that so many people, you know, Manson is in and out of their lives, you know, especially the old heads.

01:09:42.500 --> 01:09:46.500 And then, you know, we have so many new fans of Manson.

01:09:46.500 --> 01:09:55.500 And I know that when I discovered Manson and I had to go back to learn the spooky kids and all of those things, Pogo is so special.

01:09:55.500 --> 01:09:56.500 Steven is so special.

01:09:56.500 --> 01:10:02.500 And I just, I truly hope that this finds everybody that is a fan of him.

01:10:02.500 --> 01:10:07.500 He's so important to the Manson community and to Manson, just, you know, personally.

01:10:07.500 --> 01:10:10.500 I truly hope that that clears so much stuff up for people.

01:10:10.500 --> 01:10:15.500 We've had a lot of people wondering if they're still good, if they still have a relationship or friendship.

01:10:15.500 --> 01:10:16.500 And clearly they do.

01:10:16.500 --> 01:10:17.500 Everything is fine.

01:10:17.500 --> 01:10:19.500 Everything is under the bridge.

01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:20.500 They have moved forward.

01:10:20.500 --> 01:10:23.500 As you heard, Steven's super proud of Manson.

01:10:23.500 --> 01:10:24.500 They're like brothers.

01:10:24.500 --> 01:10:29.500 And Pogo played such a big role in the earlier sound.

01:10:29.500 --> 01:10:35.500 And we are just so grateful to have him on the show because we know that he does not usually do stuff like this.

01:10:35.500 --> 01:10:37.500 And he has stories for days.

01:10:37.500 --> 01:10:41.500 We are just so excited for you guys to listen to this and we hope you enjoy it.

01:10:43.500 --> 01:10:44.500 All right, guys.

01:10:44.500 --> 01:10:49.500 Well, until next time, you can find the podcast on Instagram at Manson Podcast.

01:10:49.500 --> 01:10:52.500 You can find me on Instagram at Alex Sinclair.

01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:55.500 And you can find me on Instagram at Jenna X Arkansas.

01:10:55.500 --> 01:10:59.500 Tour starts April 22nd in Highland, California.

01:10:59.500 --> 01:11:01.500 Get your tickets if you have not.

01:11:01.500 --> 01:11:03.500 It's going to be a long year of tours.

01:11:03.500 --> 01:11:06.500 Chapter two has not even reared its head yet.

01:11:06.500 --> 01:11:08.500 We're still waiting for that.

01:11:08.500 --> 01:11:10.500 We have a long year in front of us, guys.

01:11:10.500 --> 01:11:12.500 I think chapter two is going to drop on us like a bomb.

01:11:12.500 --> 01:11:14.500 So everybody be ready.

01:11:14.500 --> 01:11:15.500 Thank you guys for listening.

01:11:15.500 --> 01:11:17.500 Thank you again to Steven.

01:11:17.500 --> 01:11:21.500 And we also want to thank Melissa, his wife as well, because she kind of orchestrated this for us.

01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:23.500 Oh, I love you, Melissa.

01:11:23.500 --> 01:11:26.500 Enjoy the episode and we'll see you guys next time.

01:11:26.500 --> 01:11:27.500 Bye bye.

01:11:27.500 --> 01:11:28.500 Bye bye.

01:11:28.500 --> 01:11:29.500 Bye.

01:11:29.500 --> 01:11:30.500 Bye.

01:11:30.500 --> 01:11:31.520 I."

01:11:31.520 --> 01:11:33.500 Bye bye".

01:11:33.500 --> 01:11:35.500 Bye bye.

01:11:35.500 --> 01:11:38.500 Bye bye.

01:11:38.500 --> 01:11:39.500 Bye bye.

01:11:39.500 --> 01:11:43.500 Bye.

01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:48.500 Bye bye.