Interview:2025/07/07 Interview with Michael Beinhorn
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| Interview with Michael Beinhorn | ||
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| Interview with Michael Beinhorn | ||
| Date | July 7, 2025 | |
| Source | The Manson Podcast, ep. 10 | |
| Interviewer | Alex Sinclair and Jenna Arkansas | |
 This page or section contains speech recognition generated transcription and may be incorrect.
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Transcription[edit]
- The transcription below is a WebVTT file generated using OpenAI Whisper.
WEBVTT
00:00.000 --> 00:08.740 hello everyone and thank you for listening to the Manson podcast a podcast dedicated to the icon
00:08.740 --> 00:15.200 Marilyn Manson I am your co-host Alex Sinclair and I am your other co-host Jenna Arkansas
00:15.200 --> 00:22.660 welcome to episode 10 where we interview the revolutionary producer Michael Beinhorn who
00:22.660 --> 00:29.020 produced the groundbreaking album Mechanical Animals Michael has an extraordinary career
00:29.020 --> 00:35.220 that led up to him producing Mechanical Animals one of the best albums of all time and also Manson's
00:35.220 --> 00:41.380 first number one record this is going to be a very special interview so let's get started
00:41.380 --> 00:49.080 okay well first of all I just want to say and I'm sure this is going to get brought up numerous times
00:49.080 --> 00:54.880 during our episode but I just cannot believe Michael Beinhorn the Michael Beinhorn agreed to
00:54.880 --> 01:02.460 be on our show I asked him and he agreed almost immediately while he agreed I also want to add
01:02.460 --> 01:10.220 because I feel like this is very Mechanical Animals I was switching over my iPhone in the technical world
01:10.220 --> 01:15.380 right I just got this new iPhone because my other iPhone I felt like was glitching and this one's
01:15.380 --> 01:20.120 doing the same shit so I just got roped into some bullshit I was switching my phone over and I
01:20.120 --> 01:26.820 couldn't text I couldn't do anything but I could receive social media messages and his name popped
01:26.820 --> 01:34.480 up and he said sure what time frame do you have which is insane I still don't think that it has set in
01:34.480 --> 01:43.720 that we're interviewing the producer of Mechanical Animals the producer of Mechanical Animals like that is
01:43.720 --> 01:51.760 wild little me in 98 can't believe that no I can't believe it either because obviously his efforts for
01:51.760 --> 01:59.900 Mechanical Animals is absolutely outstanding but also reading some of this other stuff that he's worked on
01:59.900 --> 02:08.020 is insane we'll get into that his Wikipedia when I read it I was like um this guy agreed to be on
02:08.020 --> 02:14.940 a show talking to me and Jenna wait what it's too much I will say right off the bat Mechanical Animals
02:14.940 --> 02:21.300 is definitely one of my favorite albums from Manson when it came out I just remember and we've talked
02:21.300 --> 02:25.540 about this on our show because we've done some dissecting of Mechanical Animals because we had
02:25.540 --> 02:31.900 Joey Coltis on the photographer for the record so we did a lot of that already but I really do feel
02:31.900 --> 02:37.860 bad for this new generation of Manson fans because I mean obviously it's it's great that you guys have
02:37.860 --> 02:45.200 joined us but if you weren't there in the 90s and especially for this moment when he came from
02:45.200 --> 02:53.320 Antichrist to Mechanical Animals you really missed out on some serious hysteria and also huge
02:53.320 --> 03:00.180 confusion people did not know what to think his hardcore fans were like what the fuck is he doing
03:00.180 --> 03:05.540 is he gay is he a woman now does he have tits and the sound the music wasn't really hitting with
03:05.540 --> 03:13.720 them I was only 11 years old and this was my official introductory to Manson I saw his Antichrist
03:13.720 --> 03:18.580 stuff here and there on MTV when I could and it resonated with me of course but then when this came
03:18.580 --> 03:24.500 out it just blew down the doors for me so it was just such an interesting time and back in 98 I mean my
03:24.500 --> 03:30.280 god it was a totally different time nobody was doing anything mechanical animal-esque this record
03:30.280 --> 03:35.820 means everything not only is the sound something that I feel has never been able to be recreated and
03:35.820 --> 03:41.720 I don't even think anyone's even really tried that hard yeah I don't think anybody's tried it also
03:41.720 --> 03:48.980 stands out completely in Manson's catalog you know what I mean we are gonna interview a revolutionary
03:48.980 --> 03:58.380 producer who did a revolutionary album and I really hope everyone understands how important
03:58.380 --> 04:06.460 Mechanical Animals is so it actually what it came out in I was like September of 98 yes September 15th
04:06.460 --> 04:14.600 1998 okay so yeah actually 10 days before my birthday I remember going and buying Mechanical Animals in
04:14.600 --> 04:23.420 the record store we had this really weird place in a town outside of where I grew up and the dude was
04:23.420 --> 04:28.720 obsessed with the Beatles so his store was called Blue Meanie you know like the Blue Meanies are in
04:28.720 --> 04:34.060 the yellow submarine you know yes but I remember when it came out because I got it there and you know it
04:34.060 --> 04:41.560 was in the what is it like the 3d case still to this day I don't know why this is a core memory but
04:41.560 --> 04:47.620 inside of that record store there was and nobody's gonna know what the fuck I'm talking about but
04:47.620 --> 04:55.880 the mobiles that sometimes they used to have in record stores which you don't have those today so
04:55.880 --> 05:03.040 nobody knows what the hell I'm talking about but anyways it was one for mechanical animals what is it
05:03.040 --> 05:11.200 a mobile like you know like a mobile that would hang over a baby's crib oh oh oh and this stayed
05:11.200 --> 05:16.680 in this record store until you know fuck we were graduated and moved out but it was always in there
05:16.680 --> 05:21.760 and I was always trying to get the guy me and call both were like sell that to us let us have that
05:21.760 --> 05:26.680 right come on you should have and he should have because you know when it got closed down it probably
05:26.680 --> 05:32.520 just got fucking thrown away I would still fucking have it today you know but it had the cover for
05:32.520 --> 05:37.660 mechanical animals on it and the things that were hanging down from it were all the previous albums
05:37.660 --> 05:44.240 wow yeah you know just kind of looked like little cd like little rectangles of them that thing has
05:44.240 --> 05:49.400 always been just burned into my brain and always so pissed off that that dude would not fucking sell
05:49.400 --> 05:56.420 it I remember that coming out and I think me being a hateful little shit and coming off of you know
05:56.420 --> 06:03.920 buying my antichrist album from columbia house because I was I was about to turn 13 I remember
06:03.920 --> 06:08.220 getting that and coming home and listening to it and I didn't know what the fuck I was listening to
06:08.220 --> 06:13.560 right I was in like a little bit of a shock for probably like the first week listening to I loved
06:13.560 --> 06:18.220 it I'm not gonna say transition myself into it but I just I was like what's happening here
06:18.220 --> 06:25.220 but you know to this day is still my comfort album my calm down album and where I think I did
06:25.220 --> 06:34.200 try to learn to be a little bit more vulnerable for sure because we did come off of a angry album
06:34.200 --> 06:43.400 it's got this melancholy vibe but also a very technical space vibe and again nobody was fucking
06:43.400 --> 06:49.360 doing that right then and I think it shocked a lot of people I mean he's the shock rocker of our time
06:49.360 --> 06:55.000 that really shocked people because they were like what the fuck and he's got these tits yeah tits
06:55.000 --> 07:02.800 everybody was hysterical about the tits yeah and again the younger generation now has no idea what
07:02.800 --> 07:12.040 that was like no like trying to be a kid first of all that was just in you know weird clothes or
07:12.040 --> 07:20.660 whatever and then now there's this glam side which probably contributed to all of my silver lipstick
07:20.660 --> 07:28.460 and silver nail polish and all of that shit because I was trying to look kind of spacey and alieny as I
07:28.460 --> 07:35.680 could okay let's just touch on that real fast because I think I already might have said this but the fans
07:35.680 --> 07:41.760 that were hardcore Manson fans when that came out they were like what the fuck and they were so
07:41.760 --> 07:47.480 confused and they thought that they lost this shock rocker rock god and that he was turning into a
07:47.480 --> 07:53.080 female and that he wasn't going to make a heavy record ever again they were just very confused
07:53.080 --> 07:59.860 but I think what happened or what needed to happen is they needed to just kind of adapt to it a little
07:59.860 --> 08:06.700 bit because I know for a fact that this is like a lot of people's number one or number two or number
08:06.700 --> 08:14.020 three most favorite album from Manson it just took some time to adapt and you know Manson's smart he
08:14.020 --> 08:23.500 knew that that probably needed to happen so but that was just a crazy time and I can't really think of
08:23.500 --> 08:29.720 anybody else doing something like that stark of a difference between two albums I'm sure everyone's
08:29.720 --> 08:36.200 tired of hearing me talk about this but maybe Madonna but that's literally it you know what I mean
08:36.200 --> 08:41.260 because like she did a very heavily r&b album and then came out with ray of light well that was
08:41.260 --> 08:45.680 totally techno Madonna and Manson might be the only two people that I can think of that could do
08:45.680 --> 08:52.560 something such a stark difference of things and it actually clicked right because I think other people
08:52.560 --> 08:58.440 have tried to do that especially people that were either country and then went into pop or they were pop
08:58.440 --> 09:05.940 and they try to go into you know something else it hasn't been as smooth of a transition or I guess
09:05.940 --> 09:13.240 accepted is what I should say so let's just move on to some real quick facts about mechanical animals
09:13.240 --> 09:19.240 I'm sure a lot of you guys know this it was released on September 15th 1998 by Interscope Records
09:19.240 --> 09:26.460 the first single was The Dope Show that was released I think in August of 98 and because I know the video
09:26.460 --> 09:32.800 premiered August 20th of 98 and the record debuted at number one on the billboard charts which makes
09:32.800 --> 09:38.280 it Manson's first number one album because Antichrist only got to number three not saying like it only
09:38.280 --> 09:42.500 got to number three but yeah it only reached number three and mechanical animals was number one other
09:42.500 --> 09:48.460 singles I don't like the drugs but the drugs like me rock is dead and coma white now this is super
09:48.460 --> 09:55.600 interesting about Mr. Binehorn here when I read this on wiki I was like whoa wait a minute okay so he
09:55.600 --> 10:03.160 also was producing Celebrity Skin by Hole which is a great record I fucking love that record
10:03.160 --> 10:12.580 he was producing I think these two albums kind of in the same time but regardless of when they were
10:12.580 --> 10:19.000 recorded they were released at the same time I think Celebrity Skin was released September 8th or
10:19.000 --> 10:24.960 something I'm just going to read this all right both records which is Celebrity Skin and Mechanical
10:24.960 --> 10:31.780 Animals were finished and released at the same time giving Binehorn the distinction of being the first
10:31.780 --> 10:42.320 record producer in history to have two records debut in the top 10 positions on the billboard album charts
10:42.320 --> 10:49.420 at the same time so Manson was number one and Hole with Celebrity Skin was at number nine can you
10:49.420 --> 10:54.800 fucking believe that and we were talking to him yeah and that's crazy because those are two albums
10:54.800 --> 11:02.500 that are for that time period holy shit such a good time period and I remember them being on
11:02.500 --> 11:11.880 the MTV Awards they both were on the MTV Awards in 98 that year and doing Dope Show and Celebrity Skin
11:11.880 --> 11:19.080 they performed both of those and I had not bought that whole album yet but because I saw it on the MTV
11:19.080 --> 11:25.160 Awards I went and bought it and I've probably said this before but you know my mom had no problem
11:25.160 --> 11:32.060 buying that Manson album but was so disappointed in me for wanting that Celebrity Skin album I will
11:32.060 --> 11:39.400 never forget her saying Courtney Love really Jenna oh my god no she did not want me listening to
11:39.400 --> 11:45.160 Courtney Love but that is so funny but damn what an amazing I mean that that's also a very amazing
11:45.160 --> 11:50.620 album well let's just move into just some quick facts about Michael Binehorn because there are some
11:50.620 --> 11:59.760 things that I'm sure people are not aware of because he plays a pretty major role in sounds and record
11:59.760 --> 12:06.320 producing that I was not even aware of I mean this guy is a genius he was born in the 60s in New York City
12:06.320 --> 12:14.120 he is a musician record producer and author and he began his career which I'm sure he's going to talk
12:14.120 --> 12:19.880 about with us as a synthesist and he kind of perfected that by going to school for that
12:19.880 --> 12:25.600 there's a lot of terms in here that I can't even pronounce it's a lot of equipment I can't even
12:25.600 --> 12:31.380 pronounce but he kind of perfected the synthesizer he's used a lot of amazing stuff sorry all my
12:31.380 --> 12:36.020 husband's a synthesizer nerd when Kyle was like okay yeah I remember that because one of his first
12:36.020 --> 12:44.400 things that he had was it was a Moog yeah a Moog micro Moog yes and the amount of Moogs that my husband
12:44.400 --> 12:52.720 has nerded out on and he's had a couple then he met someone named Bill Loswell and then they got some
12:52.720 --> 12:59.780 other friends together and they formed a band called the zoo band and they ended up getting
12:59.780 --> 13:07.120 produced by somebody named Gro Gromalski the last name was Gromalski and he was kind of a heavy hitter
13:07.120 --> 13:13.540 back then he managed some big bands and he was supposedly a manager of the Rolling Stones for a
13:13.540 --> 13:19.240 weekend I'm not sure what that means but we're gonna move on so when they broke away from him
13:19.240 --> 13:27.340 this Gromalski guy then Binehorn and Laswell ended up producing for themselves so I think this is when
13:27.340 --> 13:35.860 Binehorn started you know experimenting and making music for himself and then they also changed the
13:35.860 --> 13:43.220 band name to Material and they played at CBGB's Mud Club Hurrah's Tier 3 all the main local places in
13:43.220 --> 13:50.580 New York City that housed really good bands so then it looks like some of the band members dropped off
13:50.580 --> 13:58.280 and Binehorn and Laswell collaborated on various projects with artists such as Niall Rogers and David
13:58.280 --> 14:05.840 Byrne what the fuck also worked with Patti LaBelle and then they also were doing an ongoing collaboration
14:05.840 --> 14:13.160 with Brian Eno what that's fucking nuts they did Lizard Point from the fourth and final recording
14:13.160 --> 14:20.540 in Eno's Ambient series Ambient 4 on Land okay so then this is where it gets even more fucking insane
14:20.540 --> 14:29.200 okay like I can't even make this shit up so in the year of 1981 they composed Change the Beat by Fab
14:29.200 --> 14:36.460 Five Freddy which was the source of the infamous quote-unquote fresh scratch this is nuts because
14:36.460 --> 14:43.160 it took me a while to figure out what they were talking about you know I did research and I I
14:43.160 --> 14:49.580 listened to this track Change the Beat by Five Freddy and it's when I might sample it I might actually
14:49.580 --> 14:56.840 sample it in this podcast but if I don't it's when someone's voice basically sounds like like a computer
14:56.840 --> 15:06.680 so and that's everywhere now I mean you can't have a song without that now you know what I mean
15:06.680 --> 15:14.120 it's now programmed into synthesizers that is so crazy yeah that's crazy I've probably heard that
15:14.120 --> 15:20.660 a thousand times in my house just with Kyle fucking with shit so then this is where it gets even more
15:20.660 --> 15:29.640 crazy so then in 1983 Herbie Hancock he did a record called Future Shock which had the groundbreaking
15:29.640 --> 15:39.120 track Rocket on it which was the first ever usage of the fresh scratch as a turntable scratch so this
15:39.120 --> 15:44.860 is like one of the first songs ever to take from a well I don't want to say ever but took something
15:44.860 --> 15:51.280 very experimental from one song put it in theirs and kind of made it their own he had a lot of
15:51.280 --> 15:59.540 hip-hop experimental synthesizer work in the early 80s that obviously is very groundbreaking and
15:59.540 --> 16:05.720 revolutionary in its own right now what Beinhorn is doing it seems per wiki and I'm sure he's gonna
16:05.720 --> 16:11.560 tell us in the interview but it seems like he has opened up some kind of an organization
16:11.560 --> 16:20.780 to help artists and producers kind of maintain their creative ethics and he works with them
16:20.780 --> 16:27.400 to advocate for them because I'm sure the record industry is not very kind to producers especially
16:27.400 --> 16:32.960 nowadays it is a group called the Beinhorn Creative Beinhorn started one of the world's first completely
16:32.960 --> 16:39.220 remote services for working with artists and producing music in 2018 called the Beinhorn Creative
16:39.220 --> 16:44.980 he sees this as a way to help musicians achieve their greatest potential while pursuing
16:44.980 --> 16:52.200 in return to excellence so that's great that's what he's doing now so some of the stuff that he
16:52.200 --> 16:57.760 has worked on we're just gonna bust through this real fast some of the albums Change the Beat
16:57.760 --> 17:03.760 Fab Five Freddy we talked about that Future Shock Herbie Hancock we talked about that the Uplift
17:03.760 --> 17:08.840 Mofo Party Plan by the Red Hot Chili Peppers Mother's Milk by the Red Hot Chili Peppers
17:08.840 --> 17:17.100 Why Do Birds Sing by the Violent Femmes Grave Dancers Union by Soul Asylum I loved those songs that came
17:17.100 --> 17:26.740 off that record runaway train train yeah runaway train and um want somebody to shove so good he did
17:26.740 --> 17:35.660 Sunshine of Your Love Living Color he did Blind Man and Walk on Water by Aerosmith Osmosis Ozzy Osbourne
17:35.660 --> 17:42.920 White Light White Light White Heat White Trash Social Distortion Celebrity Skin Whole Mechanical Animals
17:42.920 --> 17:50.180 obviously Marilyn Manson and then after Manson he did some interesting ones the Verve Pipe by the Verve Pipe
17:50.180 --> 17:58.140 and then Untouchables by Korn but he also did the fucking Super Unknown by Soundgarden I don't know if
17:58.140 --> 18:07.120 everybody is as big a Soundgarden nerds is what I am but that fucking album is unreal and obviously that was
18:07.120 --> 18:08.840 what was that like in 94?
18:09.380 --> 18:16.060 Yes it came out in 94 and I do remember reading when I was doing research on Vinehorn that when he heard
18:16.060 --> 18:23.860 I think the demos for Black Hole Sun when he heard that from Chris Cornell for the first time he I think about
18:23.860 --> 18:30.400 fell out of his chair because it made him feel something he never felt before that song and Chris
18:30.400 --> 18:38.780 Cornell's voice in that is just woo god bless I can tell this just by going through a lot of his his
18:38.780 --> 18:44.160 catalog of things that he has done because he did those two songs with Aerosmith he did Blind Man and
18:44.160 --> 18:50.840 Walk on Water and those are just on the big ones kind of like a greatest hits thing but they did those
18:50.840 --> 18:56.660 two songs on there those are two completely different songs that I think that that also
18:56.660 --> 19:03.300 came out in 94 yeah it did I spent a summer just playing Super Nintendo and listening to that and
19:03.300 --> 19:09.840 those two songs are so completely different for the Aerosmith catalog at that time I'm gonna start
19:09.840 --> 19:16.780 calling it the Binehorn effect because damn he adds something completely different to whoever he touches
19:16.780 --> 19:28.900 and that's amazing thank you so much Michael for joining the Manson podcast it is an absolute honor to
19:28.900 --> 19:35.920 have you on our show thank you and we are going to get started with the questions and a lot of these
19:35.920 --> 19:43.320 were submitted by fans as well and they are so excited just so you know it's great that's great well
19:43.320 --> 19:50.200 again I'm happy to happy to help okay so the first question is is can you tell us a little about
19:50.200 --> 19:56.700 yourself and what made you want to become a music producer yeah I mean when from the time that I was
19:56.700 --> 20:03.640 really small I was always fascinated with sound and sonics and music and things like that and I started
20:03.640 --> 20:10.760 playing synthesizer in a band when I was about 18 or 19 or something like that and I didn't like playing
20:10.760 --> 20:16.980 performing in front of crowds of people so I enjoyed being in recording studios very much so
20:16.980 --> 20:22.400 I guess it being that guy the studio was really more of like a it was like a great big musical
20:22.400 --> 20:27.680 instrument and you know everything you could patch things into other things like you could with
20:27.680 --> 20:32.780 synthesizers so it was kind of uh you know everything just seemed like it was an extension
20:32.780 --> 20:39.940 and an evolution of that that whole process I know I read that you had a lot to do with hip-hop in the
20:39.940 --> 20:46.040 beginning in the very beginning I don't know if I'd say I had a you know I mean like I was involved
20:46.040 --> 20:53.860 certainly like in in 1980 I worked on a bunch of hip-hop 12 inches and one of the 12 inches
20:53.860 --> 21:01.420 had a sound on it that became the third most sampled sound in our actually recorded music but it got used
21:01.420 --> 21:08.880 on a lot of hip-hop records most notably I created it it was first used on a record that I did with an
21:08.880 --> 21:15.520 artist named Herbie Hancock and it's called Rocket yes and that was I did become a very also became a
21:15.520 --> 21:22.580 very important record I guess in in hip-hop and in hip-hop music in general so yeah I was I was
21:22.580 --> 21:28.780 guess I was pretty directly involved in that okay so how did you come to work with Manson for Mechanical
21:28.780 --> 21:34.940 Animals like who approached you to do that well it was funny because the first I heard of it was that
21:34.940 --> 21:40.540 I sat down with him so I guess you could say he approached me what happened was is that Billy Corgan
21:40.540 --> 21:47.700 who I'd never met at that point recommended me first to work with Hole and then he recommended me
21:47.700 --> 21:52.400 to work with Manson and I was kind of like why is this guy doing this I mean like first of all I was
21:52.400 --> 21:57.960 like you know I couldn't wait to actually to actually meet him face to face and thank him I was like
21:57.960 --> 22:05.700 I have no idea why you're being so thoughtful oh that is so sweet well you know I mean I to this day
22:05.700 --> 22:12.060 you know it was really lovely that he did that but you know those were both projects that I think he
22:12.060 --> 22:18.140 originally was going to work on he was originally going to produce Hole and he had to make his record
22:18.140 --> 22:22.880 so he would that wasn't going to happen and then he was going to work with Manson and I can't remember
22:22.880 --> 22:27.980 something interfered with that as well so in both cases he said why don't you you know why don't you
22:27.980 --> 22:33.460 work with this guy instead and that's pretty much how it all came together okay so what demos did they
22:33.460 --> 22:41.040 bring you first for Mechanical Animals they had a mock-up of the whole record oh wow they had
22:41.040 --> 22:47.380 everything except for I don't like the drugs which is something that we kind of like we kind of worked up
22:47.380 --> 22:55.200 in rehearsal the songs were mocked up we worked on rearranging a bunch of them starting I think with
22:55.200 --> 23:00.680 I can't remember when we got the dope show I think that was one of the first yeah we did some
23:00.680 --> 23:06.420 arrangement stuff to the song like it was too long I think it had too many verses and choruses and stuff
23:06.420 --> 23:11.900 like that so we wound up whittling it down so that it made more sense that way but it was pretty much
23:11.900 --> 23:16.020 the whole record I think there was like one additional song that we didn't wind up working
23:16.020 --> 23:21.720 that was a huge question from the fans they want to know and it's later on in the questions but we
23:21.720 --> 23:28.240 can answer it now if you want is what songs were left off of the record if there any I'm trying to
23:28.240 --> 23:33.780 remember I think there was a track that they called golden needles or something like that yeah I mean
23:33.780 --> 23:40.600 I'm trying to I'm trying to envision that the box that the CD came in in front of me and I it's been a
23:40.600 --> 23:46.340 while yeah exactly apart from one track I think we used pretty much everything on there it was all
23:46.340 --> 23:53.220 really like it was all ready to ready to go it's really good this was another huge question from the
23:53.220 --> 24:00.640 fans what was it like working with Zim Zim and what was his overall contributions because I know
24:00.640 --> 24:08.620 because it reads to us that he left at some point nobody knows when he left I don't even know if you're
24:08.620 --> 24:13.680 allowed to talk about this this is like 23 years ago I mean I don't think anyone's going to come
24:13.680 --> 24:22.200 after me and hit squad and like assassinate my family no no no no no no no like Zim didn't do
24:22.200 --> 24:28.100 I don't think he did anything really you know it's kind of a shame but there were some there were some
24:28.100 --> 24:37.300 issues on the record like with him he just kind of vanished oh we're doing guitar sounds and it was
24:37.300 --> 24:42.400 really easy to get a tone with Twiggy for some reason he had a really good touch like he just
24:42.400 --> 24:47.920 he's just naturally acclimated towards guitars you plug them into something it just sounds good
24:47.920 --> 24:54.080 immediately and you start recording but with Zim it was a lot harder and we went through a lot of hoops
24:54.080 --> 25:00.820 you know we had these like big rigs and all this kind of stuff I can't remember how long we were like
25:00.820 --> 25:06.340 getting working on guitar tone with him but it was much longer than Twiggy and then all of a sudden
25:06.340 --> 25:17.740 the day of recording starts and he's just not there really and I think we may have recorded him
25:17.740 --> 25:22.600 somewhere in the record but I don't I don't know exactly where Twiggy did pretty much all the guitar
25:22.600 --> 25:27.520 in the record yes because we were going through the credits and that's where I think a lot of fans
25:27.520 --> 25:33.400 get confused is okay well did Zim Zim do the whole record and then did he get kicked then did he get
25:33.400 --> 25:39.760 kicked out and then Twiggy went back and did everything didn't get kicked out I mean a lot
25:39.760 --> 25:45.760 of it was just us going like all right where is this guy you know yeah he got mixed up in some stuff
25:45.760 --> 25:51.400 I guess my sense of propriety or whatever just being a gentleman I'm not gonna I'm not gonna discuss
25:51.400 --> 25:57.580 any of that but no I get it it had nothing to do with recording at any rate and you know we just
25:57.580 --> 26:03.820 had to carry on and Twiggy of course is like an excellent guitarist so it was it was easy to you
26:03.820 --> 26:09.280 know to get trashed with him really quickly okay so that puts that to rest I hope everybody's listening
26:09.280 --> 26:14.320 because we got 30 40 questions asking us about that I'm not even joking people were very confused
26:14.320 --> 26:21.160 because I think somewhere along the lines he had kind of said that his tone brought so much to the
26:21.160 --> 26:28.940 album so it's very confusing for fans so that's a great insight finally I wish it had to be perfectly
26:28.940 --> 26:33.640 honest with you I'm sure it would have added something more to the to the record to have two
26:33.640 --> 26:39.420 guitarists but it was mainly Twiggy so let's move on can you tell us some of the experimentations you did
26:39.420 --> 26:44.640 on the record with instruments and vocals now that is a loaded question I totally understand that so
26:44.640 --> 26:51.720 if you just want to give us some of your favorites no it's not really it's not really loaded you know
26:51.720 --> 26:58.500 I mean a lot of some of the effecting guitars and things like that had already been recorded like we took
26:58.500 --> 27:05.400 stuff from the demos in some cases that they did with Sean Bevan you know so there are some very
27:05.400 --> 27:12.060 like heavily processed guitars and effects on like dope show for example and Sean did that with those
27:12.060 --> 27:18.420 guys so I have to give the credit where it's due in that case as far as like as far as Twiggy's main
27:18.420 --> 27:25.140 guitars like the rhythm stuff I did a lot of synth processing on those I took a lot of his actually I
27:25.140 --> 27:31.380 processed all the instruments pretty heavily when we were recording them Twiggy's bass went through a
27:31.380 --> 27:41.520 rig that had an amp sound a DI sound and a whole rack of different kinds of distortions which included
27:41.520 --> 27:49.740 9000 I think tube solid state kind of rack mount device and it gave it a really unique kind of tone
27:49.740 --> 28:01.200 between these guitars we split between I think a Marshall rig a a sans amp which is a single unit rack mount
28:01.200 --> 28:10.500 device which is very easy to find and my synth rig which had a surge modular system and an ARP 2600
28:10.500 --> 28:17.280 that we're running in series and I did a lot of processing with that like part of that was to get
28:17.280 --> 28:22.680 a real fizzy sound on the top of it and to bring in a little bit more of a hunk to it because I guess
28:22.680 --> 28:30.960 conceptual aspects of the record was Manson was very he was you can see this on the bass cover he was
28:30.960 --> 28:41.160 obsessed with like Bowie you know and Bowie's glam period so for me one of the one of the key
28:41.160 --> 28:47.520 sounds from those records is Mick Ronson's guitar which is he would use a watt pedal that was kind
28:47.520 --> 28:53.340 of like semi-cocked so it would give you kind of like a like a real throaty kind of tone instead of
28:53.340 --> 28:58.320 like a normal open tone so I wanted to simulate that the watt pedal didn't work for Twiggy so I
28:58.320 --> 29:06.960 brought my sense in and I simulated that kind of tone they mixed it in with the amplifier and the
29:06.960 --> 29:13.500 sans amp and also to add more of that kind of sizzly it gave his guitar sound a much different kind of
29:13.500 --> 29:18.000 feel yeah because I'm gonna be honest and I'm not just saying this because I'm talking to you but
29:18.000 --> 29:23.400 there's never been a record that sounds like mechanical animals I'm just gonna be honest
29:23.400 --> 29:30.600 oh well thank you definitely there's definitely a lot of hard work that went into it because one of
29:30.600 --> 29:37.540 the fans commented and I feel the same way it's like it's heavy but it also sounds empty at the same time
29:37.540 --> 29:45.180 it sounds like yeah out of space you know what I mean yeah yeah exactly there was a particular mood
29:45.180 --> 29:53.420 I guess addressing some of what Manson's concept for the record was yes and you know for him he was
29:53.420 --> 30:00.660 coming at it from he was as I mentioned before he was obsessed with Bowie and you know that glam period
30:00.660 --> 30:08.880 but he was also really interested in like JG Ballard his books you know and the stuff that he wrote about
30:08.880 --> 30:14.520 like he was Ballard was really obsessed with like the Zapruder tapes and JFK's assassination
30:14.520 --> 30:20.940 and that whole period you know and also I think he wrote that book Crash or something like that
30:20.940 --> 30:25.980 you know which of course influenced the I don't know if you're familiar with the record by an artist
30:25.980 --> 30:31.380 named Daniel Miller that he called himself the normal and the song that he did was Warm Leatherette
30:31.380 --> 30:38.080 that was very popular when I was a young man it was based on the book Crash so there was a sort of
30:38.080 --> 30:46.300 like dark dystopian kind of like yeah spacious kind of thing the whole you know Major Tom blah blah blah
30:46.300 --> 30:51.320 you know outer space and how all that kind of that stuff kind of connected those were some of like
30:51.320 --> 30:57.860 his touchstones as far as this record you know the whole otherworldly thing like the cover really sort
30:57.860 --> 31:04.340 of was very indicative of that it was kind of like a you know sort of like a retro impression of like
31:04.340 --> 31:11.020 what the future would look like you know based on I guess you know a whole dystopian kind of like
31:11.020 --> 31:16.940 development in in the timeline you know in the timeline of our history that never actually happened
31:16.940 --> 31:22.600 so it was like a whole different take on the future let's say which is great I had a completely
31:22.600 --> 31:28.480 different impression of what the record was going to be like to me I saw it as kind of like I just kept
31:28.480 --> 31:35.740 thinking about like about like cyborgs and things like that you know and I sort of envisioned it as
31:35.740 --> 31:43.480 this sort of like juncture between humans and machines not in a very I guess in a in a facile
31:43.480 --> 31:50.200 kind of way it was more kind of like this sort of like gritty like grisly like I guess
31:50.200 --> 31:58.320 for lack of a better word like amputated flesh that had been grafted onto like a machine or vice
31:58.320 --> 32:05.520 versa you know just this really like functional thing that was really unpleasant to look at but
32:05.520 --> 32:12.300 still was like incredibly powerful you know so I wanted to create a juncture between like humans and
32:12.300 --> 32:18.280 machines but where the I guess where the where that juncture was really not smooth or not clean
32:18.280 --> 32:24.140 if this makes any sense no I understand yeah where it was really grotesque it was kind of grotesque
32:24.140 --> 32:30.460 in a way and you were just as aware of the separation between the human and the machine as you were
32:30.460 --> 32:35.340 with the with the connection between the human and the machine you know that's one of the reasons
32:35.340 --> 32:42.620 why we made why we made things that were that were like unpleasant and distorted really more like
32:42.620 --> 32:48.240 I guess very very distorted and very very unpleasant you know like things that
32:48.240 --> 32:54.040 shouldn't be happening but you guys made it work not necessarily shouldn't be happening but but I
32:54.040 --> 33:00.280 guess we're kind of like almost caricatured and how like grotesque they were yeah and how like like
33:00.280 --> 33:06.020 if something was distorted it had to be just really distorted but in it but in a way where it felt gritty
33:06.020 --> 33:12.160 I think a lot of times when people make tones and you're focusing on the sonic elements in a piece of
33:12.160 --> 33:17.100 music they sort of go for the functional aspect of what they're doing like okay let's get it distorted sound
33:17.100 --> 33:21.540 that's good that's good enough it's distorted right but they're not thinking about what the
33:21.540 --> 33:27.000 quality of the distortion really is like to me the quality of the sounds each sound like if something
33:27.000 --> 33:33.540 was going to be clean let's function on the quality of that cleanness if it's distorted we're going to
33:33.540 --> 33:38.300 function on the quality of that distortion I get what you're saying yeah when so when he approached
33:38.300 --> 33:43.960 you with this idea so you were completely on board like you guys actually saw eye to eye you weren't
33:43.960 --> 33:49.400 like whoa wait what are you talking about no one ever came to me like with an idea that was over my
33:49.400 --> 33:55.160 head you know if someone had a specific idea in mind I was always like okay sure because you're
33:55.160 --> 34:00.600 talking in conceptual terms if you're presenting someone with an abstract idea how can you look
34:00.600 --> 34:05.300 at them and say you're crazy right you know what I mean it's an abstract idea no one's done it
34:05.300 --> 34:10.800 no one's like stuck it in you know you don't have a concrete representation of what that is so like
34:10.800 --> 34:18.340 all you can do is say sure let's do this I don't care were you aware of the two different entities
34:18.340 --> 34:24.060 that manson was portraying with the alpha and omega yeah I mean he brought that up as well a lot of that
34:24.060 --> 34:30.420 stuff was really I guess on the burner he'd throw ideas out there and then you know or thoughts about
34:30.420 --> 34:35.140 what he wanted to do or what he was trying to do out there and they wouldn't they would never get
34:35.140 --> 34:40.080 brought up again okay just because they were kind of like you know they sounded cool at the time
34:40.080 --> 34:45.140 but it was kind of like all right you know at that point it would be like what the hell does this
34:45.140 --> 34:50.380 have to do with what we're talking about you know and then like it you know in the back cover there's
34:50.380 --> 34:55.360 alpha and omega and I'm kind of like oh okay well I guess it made sense to him so there it is
34:55.360 --> 35:01.600 oh that's interesting okay yeah the Bowie glam stuff the J.G. Ballard stuff all those things like
35:01.600 --> 35:07.360 those made sense to me you know when he started talking about alpha omega I was kind of like okay and I
35:07.360 --> 35:11.940 was waiting for him to kind of like relate it in some way to what we were doing but that part of
35:11.940 --> 35:17.020 it never really materialized so he said it once or twice and I was like okay cool you know after
35:17.020 --> 35:22.280 that I was I didn't think about it again I just focused on the stuff that made more sense to me
35:22.280 --> 35:27.680 in the moment absolutely okay so this was another really big question can you talk about some of the
35:27.680 --> 35:34.640 guest stars on the record like Rose McGowan Dave Navarro she was just did some kind of like voice
35:34.640 --> 35:43.600 over thingy something or other talking you know and I processed her voice with this pc fireworks device
35:43.600 --> 35:50.560 okay I love yeah that was you know I mean she was she was his girlfriend you know yeah and she was a
35:50.560 --> 35:56.580 big deal movie starlet at that point so it's like I guess if you have someone like that in your life
35:56.580 --> 36:04.280 and they're around and available you're gonna be like hey be on my record right it is just one line
36:04.280 --> 36:08.260 but it's great though she did it for all it could be worth
36:08.260 --> 36:15.000 what about Dave Navarro
36:15.000 --> 36:24.840 oh man that was what a night that was um yeah he was he was quite a he was quite a character I think
36:24.840 --> 36:31.480 that we caught him at probably his lowest period in his life oh no he was in pretty bad shape for Dave
36:31.480 --> 36:38.020 but yeah he was he was a very nice he was very nice and very personable he was also very relatively
36:38.020 --> 36:43.560 speaking under the influence so you know we got what we could out of him he's an excellent guitarist
36:43.560 --> 36:49.260 and I don't think anyone could ever fault him for that so we did have to piece together a lot of what
36:49.260 --> 36:57.380 he played okay somehow he and I guess Twiggy and Manson at all sort of like they kind of hung out and
36:57.380 --> 37:01.240 commiserated I mean they shared certain unsavory proclivities
37:01.240 --> 37:07.960 that's a very nice way of putting that I love that the gentleman has to do what he can in
37:07.960 --> 37:14.060 circumstances like these yes absolutely he's excellent he's a great guitarist and it was
37:14.060 --> 37:20.780 it was a messy session but it was also fun having him on board were you familiar with Manson's previous
37:20.780 --> 37:28.580 work like anti-priced I will be 100% honest with you and say no and the truth is is that I'm never
37:28.580 --> 37:35.060 familiar with any of the people that I work with I've tried to make a point of never ever working
37:35.060 --> 37:42.160 with people and this hasn't always happened whose work I'm familiar with or any person whose work I
37:42.160 --> 37:48.100 actually like which is not to say by the way that I dislike Manson or his work or that I've disliked any
37:48.100 --> 37:55.200 of the other artists that I've produced it's just that I don't feel that I'm able to be objective
37:55.200 --> 38:01.640 or as objective as I'd like to be if I'm working with them and I have some not necessarily prior
38:01.640 --> 38:08.400 knowledge but prior feelings about their work so if I had any knowledge at all of Manson's work
38:08.400 --> 38:15.620 it would have been prior to that point very much in passing and post that point the point being when I
38:15.620 --> 38:20.320 actually agreed to do the project it would have been really to kind of like bone up on what they'd
38:20.320 --> 38:25.620 done really fast this makes this even more interesting actually because I mean obviously
38:25.620 --> 38:33.720 as you know now the two records back to back are starkly different it was such a shock to fans when
38:33.720 --> 38:41.400 your when your record came out and the fact that you didn't really know that beforehand just makes
38:41.400 --> 38:46.800 this so much more interesting because you really went in and just did this work because you believed
38:46.800 --> 38:52.040 in it you weren't trying to work against the grain like everyone thinks that you guys did you know
38:52.040 --> 38:58.280 what I mean I mean they would have been but not me yeah like the thing is is that if I if I know
38:58.280 --> 39:03.620 enough about an artist's work what I'm trying to do at that point is to is to create a continuum in there
39:03.620 --> 39:09.600 between what we're what we're working on and what they've done previously on the one hand I'm sure that
39:09.600 --> 39:15.780 that's great in some cases but for me it kind of does a discredit to the artist like a lot of times
39:15.780 --> 39:20.580 people would come to me because they wanted to do something different if I know what their work has
39:20.580 --> 39:25.560 been up to that point how am I really going to be able to help them do something different when part of
39:25.560 --> 39:31.680 my focus is on maintaining a degree of consistency between what they've done in the past and what we're
39:31.680 --> 39:38.480 what we're currently working on that makes sense yeah so for me it was really about taking what was
39:38.480 --> 39:45.220 there at face value without trying to contextualize it by what had happened in the past and trying to
39:45.220 --> 39:53.200 make what it is at that particular moment in time versus having it appear to be consistent with a
39:53.200 --> 40:00.160 you know with a pre-existing projector your timeline what was the most complicated song to record I don't
40:00.160 --> 40:08.860 know everybody wants to know that that's like probably the third asked question is what was
40:08.860 --> 40:14.700 the most complicated song to record I don't remember I mean we didn't have any real problems with anything
40:14.700 --> 40:21.920 like Kenny could play pretty much anything you put in front of him doing he was like yeah everyone
40:21.920 --> 40:27.180 referred to him as the human riff machine like he just sit down and play something he'd just be fiddling
40:27.180 --> 40:31.320 around staring off into space and everyone in the room would turn around going what is that that's
40:31.320 --> 40:39.240 great you know yeah he'd just be fooling around you know so he put a bass in his hands he was good put a
40:39.240 --> 40:45.140 guitar in his hands he was great you know he just knew how to handle all that stuff you know they
40:45.140 --> 40:50.700 knocked stuff out super fast you know the only times we had problems really were sitting around waiting
40:50.700 --> 40:56.600 for zimmy to show when our bass rig blew up like we we literally had to shut down the record for like
40:56.600 --> 41:02.480 five days because like part of our bass rig blew up which is like embarrassing but like it was almost
41:02.480 --> 41:06.740 the weekend you couldn't find anyone to fix it I think there were a couple of days where manson was
41:06.740 --> 41:11.620 having trouble with his voice but it wasn't it never it never really got out of hand I mean the record
41:11.620 --> 41:19.960 got finished pretty quickly you know and as far as Steven like he you know he he had all this stuff
41:19.960 --> 41:27.620 like sorted out in advance like a couple of times his rig went down he was it was so funny he'd get so
41:27.620 --> 41:32.000 wound up he'd start punching it and start screaming fuck you I'll fucking fight you
41:32.000 --> 41:41.140 oh my god yeah I mean like look people haven't said anything about him and you know I just need to
41:41.140 --> 41:47.660 make to make it plain that he was always one of their most important he's also one of my favorite
41:47.660 --> 41:54.140 people in the world but like as far as what he brought to that record and to the band inestimable
41:54.140 --> 42:01.740 you know like really really important and very very important to the sound of mechanical animals as well
42:01.740 --> 42:08.080 you know see that's what me and Jenna were talking about because we had all these questions about
42:08.080 --> 42:14.220 Zim but nobody asked anything about Pogo oh man yeah now that's a mistake that's a mistake I mean
42:14.220 --> 42:22.060 Zim wasn't on the record Pogo was there every day like he worked his butt off you know and he was part of
42:22.060 --> 42:28.220 the color that made the record too like just having him around because he was such an unusual person
42:28.220 --> 42:33.980 quite frankly very scary at times of all the people on the project I think he was the one
42:33.980 --> 42:39.600 person who Manson wouldn't mess around with like Manson had a habit of really trying to get under
42:39.600 --> 42:46.920 people's skin oh yeah wind them up oh he was terrible like that you know Stephen was the only person he
42:46.920 --> 42:53.480 didn't do that with because I think he was afraid of him and frankly I can't blame him there is a very
42:53.480 --> 43:01.200 great dynamic between those two and I feel like I've always thought of mechanical animals as a very
43:01.200 --> 43:08.180 Pogo-esque or like it was his time to shine is on this album did you have any pressure from the record
43:08.180 --> 43:16.440 label at all or were they just like take as long as you want oh geez no no no nothing like that at all
43:16.440 --> 43:22.200 I mean look this is you have to remember this is a time when if you were an artist like this yes
43:23.000 --> 43:30.300 people would bend over backwards literally you know what do you want you know like I I had no idea
43:30.300 --> 43:36.460 what Brian got up to in his spare time frankly I didn't want to know it was like they they just
43:36.460 --> 43:42.340 would constantly roll they rolled out the red carpet for people like you know they just you know they
43:42.340 --> 43:47.840 would lick his boots right because he because he was making tons of money for them and this is a
43:47.840 --> 43:53.100 point in time of the record companies didn't dictate what artists did now it's a whole different
43:53.100 --> 43:59.540 dynamic but back then it was still an artist dominant industry I gotcha yeah so the only time
43:59.540 --> 44:04.320 the record company were involved was when I called someone up from the record company and said hey
44:04.320 --> 44:09.260 we've got a rough mix for you to hear want to come down and listen to it you know stuff like that
44:09.260 --> 44:14.700 they kept their noses out of our business which is very appropriate because it had no business being
44:14.700 --> 44:20.340 there they just left us alone to do our thing I mean the record got done super fast by my you know
44:20.340 --> 44:27.860 by my metric you know because the band were ready and our engineer was really good hopefully I kind of
44:27.860 --> 44:34.280 knew what I was doing I would think I would say so we had all the we had all the rough material we
44:34.280 --> 44:39.240 need to we needed to make the record that we were going to make I mean obviously
44:39.260 --> 44:45.320 I had no idea how it was going to turn out I just knew that it had to be the very best that it
44:45.320 --> 44:52.160 could possibly be I was going to put 100% of myself into it and I knew those guys you know no matter what
44:52.160 --> 44:59.640 kind of like what kind of nonsense they got on to I think it'd be so juvenile sometimes I couldn't get
44:59.640 --> 45:05.440 over it but when it came down to work they were there you know Manson could be the most obnoxious
45:05.440 --> 45:10.780 human being in the face of the earth but when it was time to work he was all business I was going
45:10.780 --> 45:16.060 to ask about that like how he how his work ethic was he was very professional you know I mean there
45:16.060 --> 45:23.580 were a couple of times when he like when he like overstepped you know like he he as I mentioned
45:23.580 --> 45:28.720 before he had this unique capability of just trying to wind people up and get under their skin
45:28.720 --> 45:33.740 and he like went after the engineer a couple of times and I had to take Brian aside and be like
45:33.740 --> 45:39.620 look man you gotta like lay off this guy seriously like he's here working for you you're paying him
45:39.620 --> 45:44.640 you know just be a little bit more respectful please oh no bliss
45:44.640 --> 45:51.320 yeah but he was he was like all right you're right I'm sorry yeah so he he toned it down at least
45:51.320 --> 45:56.400 for that day right I'm just wondering if Jimmy Iovine personally came down there and listened
45:56.400 --> 46:01.880 because he was on Interscope at that time right he was on Interscope I don't think that yeah no
46:01.880 --> 46:07.180 Iovine was involved no I never saw Iovine only Tom Wally who was the president of the company
46:07.180 --> 46:13.800 okay only Tom Wally he was a good guy he was a music fan I always liked Tom he's the guy who I played
46:13.800 --> 46:19.500 the rough mixes to actually but yeah Iovine had nothing to do with it at all okay he only had something
46:19.500 --> 46:24.600 to do with it after the record came out the record went to number one in billboard and it sold so many
46:24.600 --> 46:30.420 records but it sold a hundred thousand copies less than Interscope had projected so all of a sudden
46:30.420 --> 46:36.460 Iovine's on the phone to like Brian screaming about it because you wore tits on your record
46:36.460 --> 46:42.820 oh my god they actually started pulling a lot of the promotion for the record because it didn't do as
46:42.820 --> 46:48.480 well as they thought that it was going to are they insane they're so greedy it's beyond greed it's
46:48.480 --> 46:54.300 something I don't even understand these guys they they just exist in a completely different universe
46:54.300 --> 47:00.480 I get the politics but a lot of it involves shooting yourself in the foot multiple times
47:00.480 --> 47:07.980 it's just basically like alpha psycho psycho psychopathy type you know like what are you doing
47:07.980 --> 47:15.380 like are you literally insane like this is your artist you know like put more keep the resources
47:15.380 --> 47:20.460 going into him and you're going to actually make a lot more money but these guys they'd rather shoot
47:20.460 --> 47:26.700 themselves in the foot than you know than just support their artists and be like okay well we didn't
47:26.700 --> 47:32.060 have the week that we wanted but hey we just recouped our record we made like about I don't know like
47:32.060 --> 47:37.080 10 million dollars or something exactly so it's like they just want more and more and more and more
47:37.080 --> 47:42.380 I think they like having people under their boot heels and grinding them into the dirt I don't
47:42.380 --> 47:47.000 know what it is it's you know it's beyond me you kind of answered this I don't want to say you
47:47.000 --> 47:51.780 didn't think that this record wouldn't be number one but you weren't expecting it to go to number
47:51.780 --> 47:57.480 one or were you you know with an artist at that level you're gonna have some expectations that a
47:57.480 --> 48:03.640 record's gonna do well yeah you know by the time the record was done I felt pretty confident that
48:03.640 --> 48:08.940 someone was gonna love it very you know I had a really good feeling about it was positive and then
48:08.940 --> 48:15.640 like you know the records company started getting all jazzed about it and then it was released and we
48:15.640 --> 48:21.340 started hearing reports about how it was breaking sales records all over the country and how it was
48:21.340 --> 48:28.040 guaranteed to go to number one in Billboard and I was like oh yes this is so cool and then obviously we got the
48:28.040 --> 48:32.940 disappointing news that it hadn't sold quite as much as they thought you know which is really
48:32.940 --> 48:39.480 strange to me that's very strange you're projecting sales on something that hasn't been released yet
48:39.480 --> 48:44.240 you're already saying it's gonna sell this many and then you're disappointed because it didn't sell as
48:44.240 --> 48:49.600 many as you project like what are you fucking you know are you scrying into your crystal fucking ball
48:49.600 --> 48:54.420 you're like oh that's what I was I was gonna actually mention that I mean I'm sure there is
48:54.420 --> 49:01.420 some kind of science behind it or I mean I don't know but yeah his record before I think which was
49:01.420 --> 49:06.400 Antichrist that only went to number three right Jenna I think so yeah I think trying to project back
49:06.400 --> 49:12.120 in the day had to be a thousand times harder than what it would be today but I don't know that that's
49:12.120 --> 49:16.680 just that's odd so you have a record go to number one and you're still not satisfied you know what I
49:16.680 --> 49:22.800 mean I don't like that it's they're like the bad parent you know like the bad like I love you with
49:22.800 --> 49:27.260 conditions it's never enough yeah you think you're so great well you're not great because you didn't
49:27.260 --> 49:32.660 do good enough right they never really think these things through either because they don't understand
49:32.660 --> 49:38.440 the psyche of an artist like when you do something like that you're not you may think that that it's
49:38.440 --> 49:43.940 okay because you're the chairman of the record company to like yell at your artist and tell them and say
49:43.940 --> 49:49.540 all sorts of dumb shit like that but they don't really understand how they're affecting an artist
49:49.540 --> 49:56.800 like Manson he's like any other artist basically every artist has a degree of sensitivity some more
49:56.800 --> 50:02.260 than others some people are like have cast iron constitutions I haven't met very many of I mean
50:02.260 --> 50:06.860 if you say the wrong thing to them at the wrong time in the wrong way about something that's going to
50:06.860 --> 50:11.900 hurt them badly they're going to respond they may not do it outwardly but it's going to crush a part of
50:11.900 --> 50:17.940 them right and so after all this fear started you know and of course what happened in Columbine which
50:17.940 --> 50:27.900 is a real blow I I didn't realize how much of Manson he he'd actually poured into this record emotionally
50:27.900 --> 50:34.440 I saw an interview where he said he he'd been he felt he'd been far too vulnerable on this record and he
50:34.440 --> 50:40.600 was never going to be that vulnerable again that it really bothered him I think it just he I think he
50:40.600 --> 50:47.040 felt so profoundly offended and he couldn't obviously say it because hey he's Manson Manson isn't supposed
50:47.040 --> 50:56.360 to get offended about anything you know it really hurt his feelings very deeply and if the record company
50:56.360 --> 51:02.020 and guys like Ivy had been more supportive and had been like hey look you know like so you did so you
51:02.020 --> 51:07.760 didn't sell 100 they sold 100 000 less than we projected big deal this record's a smash and it's
51:07.760 --> 51:14.500 gonna stay a smash you know exactly if they backed him up I think a lot of things would have been
51:14.500 --> 51:20.040 different in his life I really do I think what they did I don't think anyone's ever going to really see
51:20.040 --> 51:26.640 or understand like the long-term ramifications that that of that event like how that affected him
51:26.640 --> 51:33.220 you know and to this day I think it's it's a wrong that has never and will never be corrected
51:33.220 --> 51:40.060 yeah wow it's a it's a pretty profound insight because after that I think he he really I think
51:40.060 --> 51:46.460 he put a lot of the vulnerability to the wayside consciously too and that was one of the things that
51:46.460 --> 51:53.020 I loved about that record yeah there was a vulnerability like a sadness like a profound depth
51:53.020 --> 52:00.580 you know to his personality that really came out so much and for people to be able to see
52:00.580 --> 52:07.740 all the facets of an artist that they love presented instead of one like it's so easy to make a record
52:07.740 --> 52:13.520 where you're just pissed off all the time it's funny because the people who make the most pissed off
52:13.520 --> 52:19.560 records are usually really happy people you know because they vent in their on their records they vent in
52:19.560 --> 52:25.280 their concerts so when they're done they're venting obviously the anger will build up again because in
52:25.280 --> 52:32.800 a lot of cases it's it's unsettled but to be able to present the complexities of the human of a human
52:32.800 --> 52:39.580 being of like their full character that's hard to do but that's what makes music so exciting and so
52:39.580 --> 52:45.000 fascinating and we had that on mechanical animals and I felt like that was the beginning of like a really
52:45.000 --> 52:52.480 great road for him that he didn't really stay on and I definitely hold his the people at his record
52:52.480 --> 52:59.680 company responsible for that for not understanding that aspect of of him as an artist and artists in
52:59.680 --> 53:04.060 general because they don't see that at all they don't understand it yeah they don't they don't
53:04.060 --> 53:07.760 understand it they're just there wanting to collect the money and the benefits from everything
53:07.760 --> 53:13.760 yeah exactly like if a record does well I did this if a record does well he did it they're never
53:13.760 --> 53:18.520 gonna say wow we really could have done a better job here or I could have done a better job it's
53:18.520 --> 53:23.440 never that it's always like that honesty screwed everything up so Michael what are you working on now
53:23.440 --> 53:32.140 what I do now is basically I work remotely I produce from home and I work with I don't work on like a
53:32.140 --> 53:39.360 lot of big recordings anymore I kind of focus what I do with people who are at a much lower level and
53:39.360 --> 53:46.180 trying to offer them production services that are I guess affordable but also help them develop as
53:46.180 --> 53:53.440 artists and mostly these are mostly people who will never actually have you know any kind of release
53:53.440 --> 53:59.980 on a record label or anything else I honestly don't think they're going to be artists anymore that make
53:59.980 --> 54:07.180 records like mechanical animals because I don't think the infrastructure exists develop artists to make them
54:07.180 --> 54:13.840 viable in that way and for there to be a support system to allow artists just to be who they are
54:13.840 --> 54:21.680 so I'm really focusing on our on people who want to do this work who are talented and who just
54:21.680 --> 54:28.680 need help kind of moving forward I don't have the same kind of goals or ambitions that I did when I
54:28.680 --> 54:34.540 worked on mechanical animals because I don't think the music world really works that way certainly not the
54:34.540 --> 54:41.980 music industry anymore and that's fine the records that I worked on I did them because I was inspired
54:41.980 --> 54:47.260 I wanted to feel more inspired and I wanted to share that inspiration with other people when I hear
54:47.260 --> 54:52.780 people talk about how much to this day they love mechanical animals you know a lot of people go like
54:52.780 --> 54:58.540 I'm sure you're tired of hearing this and you don't want to even listen to me blather on about it's like oh no I do
54:58.540 --> 55:05.220 because I love knowing that something that I worked on has had a positive effect in people's lives and
55:05.220 --> 55:10.420 has inspired them and has meant something to them you know and that they're able to take it forward
55:10.420 --> 55:15.420 and do something of their own to be inspired by that in some way and do something that they love
55:15.420 --> 55:21.880 that's you know that's meaningful that's what that's why I do and did what I've done well I can
55:21.880 --> 55:28.120 definitely vouch for the Manson fan base that you have created an absolute masterpiece and I'm not
55:28.120 --> 55:32.460 just saying this because I'm talking to you and I can't believe I'm talking to you but you are
55:32.460 --> 55:39.540 I I'm not even gonna lie and I don't usually let people in like this but when you agreed
55:39.540 --> 55:46.920 to be on our show I literally I'm gonna start crying right now that record means a lot to a lot of
55:46.920 --> 55:52.780 people it really does and it was just so different and what you captured was oh my god I can't believe
55:52.780 --> 56:02.100 I'm crying good no it's good it was just so fearless from everyone involved and and what you guys did and
56:02.100 --> 56:08.140 created was literally lightning in a bottle I don't think it'll ever be created again and it was just such
56:08.140 --> 56:14.440 a special time and we just don't get that anymore and I just want to thank you well thank you I mean
56:14.440 --> 56:19.740 you're welcome and and thank you also for sharing that with me that's the kind of stuff that I you
56:19.740 --> 56:24.620 know I do live for you know knowing that this record and other records I've done have that
56:24.620 --> 56:30.120 kind of respect on people that they mean that much what you just described is exactly what we were going
56:30.120 --> 56:36.460 for that was my intention to to make something that had that kind of emotional resonance and power
56:36.460 --> 56:41.660 you know because it opens things in people and it shows them possibilities in their own lives you know
56:41.660 --> 56:48.780 yes it makes life that much more rich and and exciting and wonderful and sad and scary too you
56:48.780 --> 56:54.500 know but you get to feel all of it you know and not be afraid it's very true everything that you're
56:54.500 --> 57:00.200 saying and I just can't believe I'm talking to you so thank you so much you're welcome believe me it's my
57:00.200 --> 57:05.520 pleasure too kind of piggybacking off of what she's saying I think for me coming off of Antichrist
57:05.520 --> 57:11.440 superstar and you guys doing something so completely different where Antichrist being
57:11.440 --> 57:18.060 such a I'm not gonna say hateful but like like you're hateful and angry and then opening up into
57:18.060 --> 57:24.040 mechanical animals because I remember that coming out and me being a kid and being like wait a minute
57:24.040 --> 57:31.220 what what happened everything has shifted but it opened up vulnerability I think for myself
57:31.220 --> 57:37.300 watch now I'm gonna start crying I'm not laughing about this no this is wonderful it really is
57:37.300 --> 57:44.720 this is cathartic watch it I might start crying too oh no no no this is like this is exactly what my
57:44.720 --> 57:51.000 intention was you know to make something that's going to inspire people it's going to move them in
57:51.000 --> 57:57.300 this exactly in this way you know this is this is wonderful really thank you guys for sharing that
57:57.300 --> 58:05.780 with me that means everything that was a very extremely special interview from Michael Beinhardt we
58:05.780 --> 58:11.520 just want to thank him again for taking the time to talk to us we hope you all enjoyed that as much
58:11.520 --> 58:15.360 as we did I'm gonna need some time to compute what we just talked about we want to thank him
58:15.360 --> 58:20.820 again and we hope you guys enjoyed it we also want to talk about Manson's fall tour which is starting
58:20.820 --> 58:27.860 September 20th in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania get your tickets because I'm pretty sure by now it's gonna be
58:27.860 --> 58:34.160 all resales thank you guys for listening to episode 10 you can find me on Instagram at Alex and Claire
58:34.160 --> 58:41.360 and you can find me on Instagram at Jenna X Arkansas you can also find the podcast on Instagram at
58:41.360 --> 58:46.260 Manson podcast thank you guys again for listening thank you to Michael Beinhardt we hope you guys are gonna
58:46.260 --> 58:52.160 blast mechanical animals now and we will see you guys on the next episode
