Interview:2025/03/14 Interview with Joseph Cultice
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| Interview with Joseph Cultice | ||
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| Interview with Joseph Cultice | ||
| Date | March 14, 2025 | |
| Source | The Manson Podcast, ep. 6 | |
| Interviewer | Alex Sinclair and Jenna Arkansas | |
 This page or section contains speech recognition generated transcription and may be incorrect.
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Transcription[edit]
- The transcription below is a WebVTT file generated using OpenAI Whisper.
WEBVTT
00:00.000 --> 00:09.320 Welcome to the Manson Podcast, a podcast dedicated to the icon Marilyn Manson. I am your co-host
00:09.320 --> 00:15.100 Alex Sinclair. And I am your other co-host Jenna Arkansas. Welcome to episode six where we
00:15.100 --> 00:22.240 interview the legendary photographer slash director Joseph Koltice. Joseph has done numerous
00:22.240 --> 00:27.380 groundbreaking projects throughout Manson's career dating all the way back to the Smells
00:27.380 --> 00:33.840 Like Children era to present day when assassination under God chapter one. He has played a major role
00:33.840 --> 00:44.900 in Manson's career. So let's get into it. All right, so disclaimer here, everyone, I am recovering from
00:44.900 --> 00:51.220 the flu. I might sound like more of a man than usual. We do have some stuff to talk about before
00:51.220 --> 00:57.200 we have our interview with Joey. We are very excited about our interview with Joey. We cannot believe
00:57.200 --> 01:03.900 that he agreed to be on this podcast. So thank you very much, Joey. It's it's gonna be fun. We have
01:03.900 --> 01:09.860 a lot to go over with him. But real quick, we just want to congratulate Marilyn Manson because he's just
01:09.860 --> 01:18.500 coming off of his completely sold out European tour. Jenna went to the show in Amsterdam. But before that,
01:18.500 --> 01:25.200 we were watching footage from the fans that were posting on social media. And it just looked amazing.
01:25.200 --> 01:31.660 The energy, the crowd. I mean, it was just incredible. People were showing up at like three or
01:31.660 --> 01:37.880 four o'clock in the morning to line up to get close to the stage. The set list was long. It was like almost
01:37.880 --> 01:45.500 20 songs. Manson hasn't had a set list like that. And like, I'm gonna say at least 10 or 15 years.
01:46.140 --> 01:52.420 Probably. Yeah. I don't even I don't even remember. But anyways, Jenna, please tell us about your
01:52.420 --> 01:59.020 experience in Amsterdam. Okay. Yeah. So, you know, even before Manson announced the entire tour for
01:59.020 --> 02:05.260 Europe, me and my friends, we had planned a trip to Amsterdam and a couple other places in Europe.
02:05.260 --> 02:10.100 But we were going to end up in Amsterdam. That was going to be like the last place when the tour
02:10.100 --> 02:14.580 dates got announced. It was just going to work out that we were going to be able to go to that
02:14.580 --> 02:20.760 Amsterdam show. I think everybody, you know, if you live in the United States, you want to see Manson
02:20.760 --> 02:25.640 outside of the United States because it's just a different, I don't know, it's a different vibe.
02:26.240 --> 02:32.640 Or I, you know, I've always caught a different vibe just watching, you know, European shows from
02:32.640 --> 02:37.260 like yesteryear there. Right. So I've always wanted to catch one. And I mean, this was just
02:37.260 --> 02:43.540 like perfect time. And the European fans and the UK fans, they were literally showing up
02:43.540 --> 02:54.380 3am, 530. And that cold is a different cold. Like the wind is so chilling. Like take your breath
02:54.380 --> 03:01.160 away, chilling. So the fact that everybody was just kind of sitting out there from 3 o'clock,
03:01.540 --> 03:06.440 530 in the morning until the doors opened at 630 at night. Hats off to y'all.
03:06.680 --> 03:11.800 Yeah, I'm too old for that. I really am. I can't, I can't do something like that. So
03:11.800 --> 03:14.540 they really, really, really showed out for Manson for sure.
03:14.540 --> 03:21.560 And I mean, I love that. I love that energy. Honestly, I maybe could do that if it hadn't
03:21.560 --> 03:27.700 been literally the last day of our trip, but we'd already been gone for two weeks and
03:27.700 --> 03:32.920 there's no way, there's no way I could stand out there like that. I know that I did arrive
03:32.920 --> 03:38.580 a little late. The opening band, what was it? Black Audio? Was that the name of the band?
03:38.580 --> 03:44.680 Yes. Yeah. They were already playing when we got in, but we also had like huge heavy
03:44.680 --> 03:53.160 coats on too. I also love that they had like a really amazing system for going and putting
03:53.160 --> 03:59.840 your coat up. Like they gave you a locker, which was nice because any merch or anything
03:59.840 --> 04:04.580 you bought, you could go throw it in there. It's kind of nice. I'm not going to say not
04:04.580 --> 04:09.500 all venues in the United States don't do that, but very few do. You know, we threw, we threw
04:09.500 --> 04:14.960 our stuff in there and me and my husband, you know, got as close as we possibly could, but
04:14.960 --> 04:19.980 just kind of in the middle. I just, I kind of like to be in the middle of everybody. Sometimes
04:19.980 --> 04:25.480 I like to be up close, but just kind of wanted to see the entire thing. And I'm not going to
04:25.480 --> 04:31.600 lie, I get a little weepy because like the opening was the music to Sacrifice of the Mass.
04:31.600 --> 04:38.800 And we both get very weepy listening to that song. So if he does that, if he does that for
04:38.800 --> 04:42.440 the U.S. tour, I'm definitely, I definitely think I might cry. Yeah. We're going to be
04:42.440 --> 04:46.760 crying on each other. So, but it is great. Cause it goes right in, you know, he went right
04:46.760 --> 04:53.660 into Not If You Understand, which is great. Super high energy, just amazing, amazing energy.
04:54.020 --> 05:00.000 I do remember a guy standing behind me and my husband. I don't remember which song it was,
05:00.000 --> 05:05.920 but, and it might've been like right before they started Not If You Understand, but the
05:05.920 --> 05:12.780 guy kept saying, he's like, he's really back. He's really back. And my husband just like
05:12.780 --> 05:19.340 turned around. He's like, oh, he is, he, he, he is. They're just like so excited. I appreciate
05:19.340 --> 05:25.100 that energy so much. The, the show is absolutely amazing. And you know, Manson had had to cancel
05:25.100 --> 05:29.640 a couple of nights before in the Copenhagen show because he had laryngitis. There was
05:29.640 --> 05:34.740 definitely a point where I was like, oh shit, laryngitis is rough. You don't know how that's
05:34.740 --> 05:39.860 going to heal. I mean, hell you just had laryngitis. So yeah, I have laryngitis because I've been
05:39.860 --> 05:44.440 coughing so hard and a lot of people, I don't think realize what laryngitis is. Laryngitis
05:44.440 --> 05:51.160 is literally the inflammation of your vocal cords. So it is a virus. You can get it as a virus,
05:51.160 --> 05:56.320 but you can also get it from singing and using your voice. Like for instance, like I just
05:56.320 --> 06:03.780 said, I've been coughing so hard that my vocal cords are inflamed. Yes, Jenna, you are very
06:03.780 --> 06:10.000 lucky because like you said, I feel like the shows overseas are just like a different kind
06:10.000 --> 06:15.040 of animal. I think it's because Manson just doesn't go over there as often. So when he goes
06:15.040 --> 06:19.040 over there, it's a huge deal. Yeah. I mean, it's just like that guy literally screaming. He's
06:19.040 --> 06:24.440 like, he's really back. He's really back. And I'm like, yeah, I do want to point that
06:24.440 --> 06:31.180 out too, that we didn't know how Manson's career was going to go. So the fact that he
06:31.180 --> 06:37.980 was on a sold out European UK tour and that he's almost sold out this upcoming one in
06:37.980 --> 06:45.380 May, I mean, maybe us Americans are kind of taking it a little bit for granted and it's
06:45.380 --> 06:50.800 like, you know, you got to make the most of these shows. Don't skip out. I feel like
06:50.800 --> 06:55.320 he's just coming into his own more. He's getting back into the groove because you know, he's
06:55.320 --> 07:01.660 sober. He's been away from the stage for years. Like he was always on tour. So go support
07:01.660 --> 07:09.120 regardless. Cause I mean, again, we had no idea how everything was going to go. And it's just
07:09.120 --> 07:14.620 amazing to witness this now. I'm so curious what the set lists are going to be like for
07:14.620 --> 07:21.400 May. And speaking of, it was announced today that Manson only has three headlining shows left
07:21.400 --> 07:27.900 that are not sold out. The rest of them are all sold out, which is incredible. The only dates that
07:27.900 --> 07:33.920 are not sold out are, I think it's Grand Rapids, Philly, which I thought Philly was sold out.
07:33.920 --> 07:38.240 And then Baltimore is the only other one. I think I would be willing to bet in the next
07:38.240 --> 07:45.060 couple of weeks, they're probably sold out. Yeah. And also just a reminder that me and Jenna will be
07:45.060 --> 07:51.520 at the Grand Rapids show in New Orleans. And I will also be at Rockville because it's right up the
07:51.520 --> 07:59.220 street for me. We want to also congratulate our winner of our giveaway, which were two general
07:59.220 --> 08:06.960 admission tickets to now the sold out New Orleans show. Her name is at Butterflies Sting. So
08:06.960 --> 08:10.360 congratulations. And we hope to see you at the show.
08:10.360 --> 08:32.900 Okay, so now we're just going to refresh everyone's memory about how badass Joseph Koltys is. He is
08:32.900 --> 08:40.220 one of the most important rock music and just music in general photographers. He is
08:40.220 --> 08:48.500 worked with people all across the board. Just to name a few. We have No Doubt, Ozzy, Nine Inch Nails.
08:49.460 --> 08:57.720 He did a lot of stuff for Nine Inch Nails. Bjork, Korn, Garbage, Beck, Boy George, and one of my
08:57.720 --> 08:59.540 personal favorites, Outkast.
09:00.180 --> 09:06.780 Ooh, he also photographed Patti Smith and goddamn, they're good. I think they were in like 2006.
09:06.780 --> 09:14.440 Beautiful photos. He's done a lot of incredible projects with these people that we listed. And
09:14.440 --> 09:22.360 some of the projects he did with Manson that are absolutely iconic. He did the Smells Like
09:22.360 --> 09:29.600 Children album artwork. He did some promo shoots for Antichrist Superstar Era, the one where he has the
09:29.600 --> 09:35.460 Halo. And he has the tubes coming out of his mouth. A lot of those pictures actually ended up in his
09:35.460 --> 09:43.240 autobiography. And Joseph also did the cover of his autobiography. He directed one of the most important
09:43.240 --> 09:51.580 tours of our generation, Dead to the World. He directed that VHS. He directed a music video that has
09:51.580 --> 09:58.640 not been officially released, but it's definitely a favorite of Manson fans. That's the Apple of
09:58.640 --> 10:04.880 Sada music video. Obviously my favorite, I think out of everything, is the Mechanical Animals album
10:04.880 --> 10:09.240 artwork. That was absolutely insane. I can't wait to ask him about that.
10:09.360 --> 10:16.780 I think if anybody knows Manson for anything, they know him for that album artwork. It was just out of
10:16.780 --> 10:22.880 the box. Nobody had done that. It's something that has stuck in everybody's brain ever since they see
10:22.880 --> 10:28.880 it. Yeah, and nobody was expecting that. Nobody was expecting that. So that was just another shock
10:28.880 --> 10:35.360 factor to that whole era. Also, which is really cool, he recently just worked with Manson. He did a
10:35.360 --> 10:42.380 bunch of pictures for the One Assassination Under God, Chapter 1. He did a lot of the inside pictures.
10:42.380 --> 10:47.760 He did where it looks like he's standing in front of a firing squad and he's blindfolded. He did that
10:47.760 --> 10:55.300 picture. He did the Target CD. So Target came out with its own version of the CD and he did the
10:55.300 --> 11:01.280 cracked glass where it looks like somebody tried to shoot Manson. He did that picture. He did the one
11:01.280 --> 11:08.820 with the fire and he also did the picture where Manson is holding up the piece of glass. And I think
11:08.820 --> 11:15.660 that was used for As Sick as the Secrets Within to kind of promote that single. So Joseph has done
11:15.660 --> 11:23.700 a lot with Manson. We have a lot to go over and we are very, very, very excited. Also, me and Jenna
11:23.700 --> 11:27.440 had to do a lot of research. Well, not a lot of research, but we had to revisit some things
11:27.440 --> 11:33.660 that Joseph has done, obviously for research to interview him. And I haven't watched Dead to the
11:33.660 --> 11:41.780 World in years. And I just want to say how absolutely powerful that tour was and just
11:41.780 --> 11:44.900 that documentary in general. I guess you can call it a documentary, right?
11:45.700 --> 11:50.520 I mean, kind of. It's literally going through them being backstage and, you know, Manson getting
11:50.520 --> 11:57.240 hosed off after the shows and stuff. That's a defining era that I'm very jealous of everybody
11:57.240 --> 12:04.820 that got to witness that. I was far too young to be in that. I know, same. I was way too
12:04.820 --> 12:11.020 young. But I just want to say that that was just such an incredible time to be alive and
12:11.020 --> 12:16.360 to be a Manson fan and to witness that tour. I mean, not saying he doesn't give it his all
12:16.360 --> 12:25.000 every tour or concert that he does, but he was really giving it his all. Like, I don't even
12:25.000 --> 12:29.920 know how that guy walked off the stage after some of those shows. He left it all on the
12:29.920 --> 12:37.880 stage, every single part of him. That was just such a riveting and raw and intense tour.
12:38.820 --> 12:43.840 And I really wish I could have been a part of that. I have such jealousy for anyone that
12:43.840 --> 12:45.660 got to see that for themselves.
12:46.040 --> 12:47.720 With your own eyes, damn it.
12:47.720 --> 12:52.560 Hello, Joseph. Can I call you Joseph or Joey?
12:53.080 --> 12:53.480 Joey.
12:53.480 --> 12:59.300 Joey, thank you so much for joining the Manson podcast. This means a lot to us and the fans.
12:59.980 --> 13:06.580 I am actually sitting next to a subway sized poster of mechanical animals as we speak.
13:06.680 --> 13:07.700 So thank you for that.
13:07.920 --> 13:11.720 So subway size, like you mean a big, like a standup print or something?
13:12.060 --> 13:12.920 Yeah, it's huge.
13:13.260 --> 13:13.800 It's great.
13:13.800 --> 13:18.980 Let's start with you, Mr. Coltheis. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
13:19.160 --> 13:24.620 Thanks for having me on the podcast. I do these occasionally and it's fun. I'm getting
13:24.620 --> 13:29.720 better at it. But what about me? Well, I've been a photographer now since the 80s, since
13:29.720 --> 13:37.700 like 81. Grew up in Phoenix, photographed the punk rock scene. My first forays into being
13:37.700 --> 13:42.940 a music photographer was in the punk rock scene. And a band called the Me Puppets convinced
13:42.940 --> 13:48.640 me to take their pictures. And that's kind of where at all I realized, oh, I could be,
13:48.960 --> 13:54.400 I could do this. But at the time I was in a band and I didn't want anyone to know that
13:54.400 --> 14:00.380 I had been taking another band's photographs because it would ruin my credit as a singer
14:00.380 --> 14:04.540 in a band. So I didn't get credit in the record, but that was literally my first pictures
14:04.540 --> 14:12.100 was Me Puppets too. Then I finished school and I moved to New York and I became an assistant
14:12.100 --> 14:18.900 from 89 to like 91. And that's where, you know, I learned how to be a real photographer.
14:19.460 --> 14:27.300 And around 92 is when I met Trent, photographed him for a musician and like then like 10 other
14:27.300 --> 14:33.780 sections after that. But through Trent, that's how I met Manson. And I think I met Manson the
14:33.780 --> 14:38.940 first time in Florida before he was even a rock star, you know, but as a photographer,
14:39.220 --> 14:43.780 I'm always kind of in the background and not as out in front. So I don't know if you
14:43.780 --> 14:48.400 remember meeting me then, but I think I remember meeting him back then. He thinks so too. But
14:48.400 --> 14:53.260 then through, you know, he became part of Trent's label and then the rest is history. We just
14:53.260 --> 14:53.780 clicked.
14:54.340 --> 14:59.560 Okay. So the first time you met him was in Florida. So, so you guys just hit it off,
14:59.560 --> 15:01.840 right? Like immediately with each other.
15:01.960 --> 15:08.840 These things kind of work is there's a, the untold hero of my photo success in the
15:08.840 --> 15:15.060 Nine Channels, Marilyn Manson world is a girl named Susie Zimmerman. She was the publicist for,
15:15.120 --> 15:21.500 um, for TVT. And then she went with Trent and started her own publicity company called formula.
15:21.500 --> 15:27.020 And she had nails and Manson, anybody that they worked with. So she's the one that kind of
15:27.820 --> 15:32.460 put me in front of them and said, you really should hire Joseph. And part of it was, is that as
15:32.460 --> 15:38.300 photographer, you get an assignment, you try to make it as creative as you want to make it,
15:38.300 --> 15:44.220 but then make it fast. And then when they need their images, you get it to them as quickly as you can.
15:44.220 --> 15:51.580 And don't over promise and don't deliver. So Susie was my, um, is, is the untold hero. She got me
15:51.580 --> 15:59.340 into all those gigs by suggesting me Susie Zimmerman, Susie as in, uh, Susie and the Banshees.
16:00.620 --> 16:08.300 I do remember reading that, that she reached out to you about, they needed more promotional photos,
16:08.300 --> 16:14.220 right? For Antichrist. Well, that, I had already photographed Manson for five times.
16:14.220 --> 16:20.620 Yes. There's that. And, um, that was the first proper session with him and the band with Twiggy
16:20.620 --> 16:25.820 and Ogo. And that was the first time I hung out of them all night too, which was, you know,
16:26.620 --> 16:33.420 at Irving Plaza in this, you know, 100 square foot, if even that 50 square foot dressing room
16:33.420 --> 16:36.220 where they're all on top of each other. It was pretty funny actually.
16:36.220 --> 16:41.180 And was that during the smells like children era?
16:41.180 --> 16:45.980 That was like right before it, they finished recording. I think they, no, it's the portrait.
16:45.980 --> 16:46.300 Okay.
16:46.300 --> 16:51.500 Yeah. It was definitely the portrait because they were recording smells like children around that time
16:51.500 --> 16:56.620 because they did, they did a lot of that in New York, a lot of the mastering or whatever,
16:56.620 --> 17:03.180 because that's when I had a meeting with him about what we should do for, uh, uh, smells like children,
17:03.180 --> 17:06.780 which then I did. I don't even know the timeframe between that.
17:06.780 --> 17:12.780 I know it was probably like a month or two after I did, uh, the high times thing.
17:13.260 --> 17:13.660 Okay.
17:13.660 --> 17:20.460 And high times was all mad because high times wants them all to be have weed and they don't really do
17:20.460 --> 17:27.900 weed. So we made the table a fake blow and fake pills and, and tourniquets and everything. So they
17:27.900 --> 17:32.220 didn't want the hard drugs, but they still used the picture. I think I can't remember what it looked
17:32.220 --> 17:33.660 like in the magazine. I didn't care.
17:33.660 --> 17:38.700 So can you tell us a little bit about the smells like children photo shoot?
17:38.700 --> 17:42.460 But, you know, basically, you know, I remember that meeting. Well, it was like,
17:42.460 --> 17:48.540 he showed me that big, crazy hat and he wanted it to be very like Willy Wonka. And I go,
17:48.540 --> 17:52.540 great. So bring all that shit. And I just came up with different lighting ideas.
17:52.540 --> 17:58.620 The crazy part is we shot in my, uh, good buddy, Steve Wiley and the other kid, Justin,
17:58.620 --> 18:05.020 they had a really big loft in really seedy part of Lower East side on third and C.
18:05.020 --> 18:10.300 Now it's probably like condos, but it was really seedy. So to make space in their place to shoot,
18:10.300 --> 18:15.580 I moved all their furniture out and stuffed it in a corner. And so we had a big studio to shoot in,
18:15.580 --> 18:20.220 but it was really seedy. I mean, the bathroom to shut the door, either had to put,
18:20.220 --> 18:25.100 if they had to sit in the toilet, you know, put one foot in the tub, which was like two feet,
18:25.100 --> 18:30.540 tub, like a little shower stall, or one foot outside the door, actually shut the door.
18:30.540 --> 18:37.340 Because it was so, it was so teeny. It was, it was really a decrepit place. Everybody lived like
18:37.340 --> 18:42.540 on top of each other in almost bunk bedrooms, really big high ceilings where they built these
18:42.540 --> 18:48.780 little rooms where you'd have to climb the ladder. Oh yeah. It was really, it was like a tenement housing
18:48.780 --> 18:54.460 almost. But all these, you know, us young hipsters lived in those conditions. It was fun. So we shot
18:54.460 --> 19:00.140 there. But the, the funny things that I remember about that shoot is that I bought a bunch of
19:01.100 --> 19:05.660 Pepsi for whatever reason, probably was on sale or something. And Manson's like, oh, we, you know,
19:05.660 --> 19:11.980 they wanted, they don't drink Pepsi. And I'm going, why? Well, because of Mormons, they own Pepsi. I'm like,
19:11.980 --> 19:18.380 oh, okay. So then Susie probably went out and got some cans of Coke for him to drink Jack and Cokes,
19:18.380 --> 19:25.580 which they're really into. And just Coke in general. And they Coke. But it was, it was just really fun.
19:25.580 --> 19:31.900 You know, Manson, those guys, I think the big difference between Manson and a lot of the pop
19:31.900 --> 19:37.660 stars like you are that he really likes the process of doing photographs. He wants to do it. He wants to
19:37.660 --> 19:45.900 talk about it. And he always comes to the table with good ideas. You know, you know, a discount
19:45.900 --> 19:51.660 his idea. So you can't do because they're not too expensive. That's all the time we ever run into
19:51.660 --> 19:58.060 problems. But he's really good at photo shoots. It's easy. It was easy back, you know, especially back
19:58.060 --> 20:05.100 then. Oh yeah. We were like, you know, it was a real shithole. There's rats everywhere. Oh,
20:06.300 --> 20:11.580 rat poop. And the guys that lived there weren't necessarily very clean, but they didn't care.
20:11.580 --> 20:18.140 It was just funny. We laughed. We laughed about that at one point in our thing, our lives together.
20:21.100 --> 20:26.220 All right. Can you touch on these Polaroids that you took during the Antichrist era?
20:26.220 --> 20:32.700 The big four by fives? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. The ones with like the tourniquets. And well,
20:32.700 --> 20:43.340 so that, so this is all the behind the camera moment of this stuff is that actual camera was
20:43.340 --> 20:53.500 a camera that I stole from my university or I borrowed it long term from my university in Arizona,
20:53.500 --> 20:59.180 where I went to school ASU. They, we used to lend out cameras and I just never returned it.
20:59.180 --> 21:05.820 And I don't think they really care at all, but so that the whole idea of that camera is a four by five
21:05.820 --> 21:14.300 camera is, um, it is a lens. And then where the film was at the back plate and you can bend and twist
21:15.260 --> 21:21.900 both those elements, whichever way you want. The idea behind that is that if you're photographing a
21:21.900 --> 21:27.180 building, you want it to be sharp at the top and sharp at the bottom, but you're looking up at it,
21:27.180 --> 21:34.060 you can bend and twist those lenses to get everything to focus. But if you do the exact opposite and just
21:34.060 --> 21:41.740 bend and twist it to make everything out of focus and stretch, then that's what I would do. And then
21:41.740 --> 21:47.900 you just do with Polaroids. The crazy thing is like to get just Manson's eyes and focus. If you look at
21:47.900 --> 21:54.060 those pictures, it's just like his eyes that are focused and the rest of it is elongated and mushy.
21:54.060 --> 22:00.140 He loved that. But I have to put a big hood over my head, focus on his eyes and then quickly pull the
22:00.140 --> 22:06.860 hood off. Don't move, don't move, don't move. Put the Polaroid in and then, you know, expose it and do it.
22:06.860 --> 22:13.580 But you couldn't move, but still a lot. He was one of the few pop stars that could do that. He
22:13.580 --> 22:17.420 understood once he, I think a lot of times when he would see what I was doing, he's like, oh,
22:17.420 --> 22:22.860 fuck, that's amazing. And then he wouldn't really focus with me and just do it. Same with Twiggy,
22:22.860 --> 22:27.580 all those characters, they were all really good. They enjoyed the photo shoot. Plus my photo shoots
22:27.580 --> 22:33.420 are fun. But that's what that thing is. And it's all shot on stuff called type, Polaroid type 55,
22:33.420 --> 22:41.580 which was a positive and a negative at the same time. And you could save that negative in a bath
22:41.580 --> 22:48.700 of solution. And that's what you print from. That is so interesting. Yeah, it's gone now. There are
22:48.700 --> 22:55.660 companies that are making a thing called type 65, but it's much smaller. It only fits on the back of
22:55.660 --> 23:02.140 like a medium format camera, but it's all gone. And so many photographers built their entire careers
23:02.140 --> 23:09.660 on that film. And then they, when digital came, it just, they ran, no one bought it enough to make
23:09.660 --> 23:14.940 it happen in this one way. And when you took some of these Polaroids out,
23:15.660 --> 23:22.060 Yeah. You scratched them yourself, correct? Yeah. So that, you know, the Antichrist thing,
23:22.060 --> 23:29.340 Susie again said, you know, they need pictures and, um, you know, I want you to do it. But,
23:29.340 --> 23:34.700 and so I just took it upon myself to do a test. Like he wanted to do something that was very
23:34.700 --> 23:40.460 Joel Peter Witkin, very distressed and scratched. I didn't speak to him about that, but he,
23:40.460 --> 23:44.540 I got that through Susie. So I just went and I photographed my friend of mine and nailed her to the
23:44.540 --> 23:50.620 wall and scratched up the things and wrote stuff on it. I did that like in one day, printed it the next
23:50.620 --> 23:56.780 day. And then we fed accident to Manson and then, and then he's like, come on down, let's do it.
23:56.780 --> 24:01.420 So I had a rough idea when I wanted to, what he wanted to do. I remember sitting on the bed that
24:01.420 --> 24:09.580 is in his weird New Orleans, uh, humid place. It's a, with him and Missy. And, uh, he was like,
24:09.580 --> 24:14.620 you know, when you sent me those prints, that's what got you the gig. Because he'd done a whole bunch of
24:14.620 --> 24:21.180 pictures of the Dean car, but they, they wanted to do more because that's back then. Even now you,
24:21.180 --> 24:29.260 you just need to service the zines and the smaller things with as many images as possible because you
24:29.260 --> 24:34.300 don't want it to do that photo shoot when you're on the road. Exactly. Exhausted. At the end time,
24:34.300 --> 24:39.500 we were just sitting around. We, I was there for almost a week. So I came in, we talked about what
24:39.500 --> 24:46.140 we were going to do. And I had a studio lined up with plans and I would, uh, go around and find
24:46.140 --> 24:51.020 weird stuff. If you look at those pictures, there's like bed springs on the wall. So I found
24:51.020 --> 24:55.980 like a bed spring in the, in the, on the street and attraction, New Orleans, a lot of that stuff
24:55.980 --> 25:01.980 that was on the ground in there, in those pictures, but stuff I found on the street, the, uh, the studio
25:01.980 --> 25:08.780 I rented, the guy had these humongous flats that he had had from some advertising shoot that he did.
25:09.340 --> 25:13.900 And he said, I was about ready to throw them away. You can do whatever you want with them.
25:13.900 --> 25:17.900 As long as you help throw them away, which I don't think I did. But then that's that red,
25:17.900 --> 25:24.220 that red room, you know, I, I painted it red. I cut a big hole in the corner to make that circular
25:24.220 --> 25:29.580 light. We got those, uh, it was easy to find back in the day. There's that one picture of like,
25:29.580 --> 25:35.660 they're in a tile medical room. Yep. Which is also really similar to the, to the book
25:35.660 --> 25:41.500 picture with him with the baby deer. It's a tile. It's just a, a four bay piece of what they would
25:41.500 --> 25:46.540 put in bathrooms back then to kind of mimic tile. And I just built that again. I think I built that
25:46.540 --> 25:53.100 set like for different shoots, like, uh, get gravity kills all kinds of hands. Cause it was cheap.
25:53.100 --> 25:58.540 Yeah. And I built that idea and that worked with them. But yeah, we just scratched up the nobles.
25:58.540 --> 26:03.580 I would literally, you know, that's so, uh, you know, you, now you might do it in Photoshop
26:03.580 --> 26:08.780 really simple, but then it was just sitting in my dark room to scratch away with an exacto knife.
26:09.900 --> 26:13.900 Yeah. That's what, that's what I was going to say. A lot of the, a lot of our listeners are
26:13.900 --> 26:22.380 a little bit younger, so they're used to Photoshop and you know, everything very digital, but you did
26:22.380 --> 26:28.140 everything by hand, which is insane. No, it's normal.
26:28.140 --> 26:32.940 No. Yeah, that's what you did back then. But like, for instance, like the halo that
26:32.940 --> 26:36.540 he has in one of those pictures you took, what did you use for that? What was that?
26:36.540 --> 26:43.020 So that's, that's just a fluorescent tube light taken out of its stuff. And then the,
26:43.820 --> 26:49.100 the wire has been retouched out. Even in the old days, I retouched it out. And it's just hanging by,
26:50.220 --> 26:52.300 monofilament, fishing wire above his head.
26:52.300 --> 26:55.660 No, wait, did you have, you didn't have Photoshop back then?
26:55.660 --> 27:01.820 No, what you could do back then is you could do, um, well, part of it too is when I photographed it,
27:01.820 --> 27:08.460 it's put in just the right spot where you don't see the majority of it. And then you can do a
27:08.460 --> 27:13.340 retouching back then. They can either do it to a negative or to the print. I think I had it done
27:14.460 --> 27:19.820 to the negatives. They would literally go and they could just match the tone, whatever they did,
27:19.820 --> 27:24.860 these retoucher guys to get that out. Yeah. I think only did that to one image. There's plenty of other,
27:24.860 --> 27:30.460 you know, one negative or one print. It's like, I still had prints of back from a photo shoot that I
27:30.460 --> 27:36.540 did with him, a promo shoot where he had bags under his eyes and stuff. And we paid a retoucher
27:37.260 --> 27:41.980 to retouch the print. So, you know, he did to make them look better. I still have those originals.
27:41.980 --> 27:49.020 And if you hold up a print to the light and kind of, you can see the paint and the chipping away
27:49.020 --> 27:55.020 they do at the, um, actual print. That's, that's crazy. I didn't know that they can do that.
27:55.020 --> 27:59.180 Yeah. All that stuff in Hollywood, all that Harrell, all those, you know, pictures of
27:59.180 --> 28:04.700 Eddie Davis, you know, there's, they, they would literally just go to this big, that's why big
28:04.700 --> 28:11.020 negatives, eight by 10 negatives. And they could just scratch away and paint and stay in airbrush
28:11.020 --> 28:16.620 and sandbrush, the actual negative. So then when they print it, that part that was dark in their
28:16.620 --> 28:23.980 eyes now is the same, you know, to an air cliff value as the part of her skin that was, was, uh,
28:23.980 --> 28:31.180 lighter. So then you don't see the, the dark spot under her eyes. Gotcha. Wow.
28:31.900 --> 28:34.780 And now that you just, on your phone, you just press make look younger.
28:34.780 --> 28:40.940 I love that insight about the fluorescent light because that image is such a fan favorite
28:40.940 --> 28:46.940 and it became like the t-shirt that everybody covets so much. So it's really cool to hear that.
28:46.940 --> 28:52.300 That's so funny. Cause I remember that, that was hanging up in the studio when he got there
28:52.300 --> 28:59.500 and he was like, ah, that's funny. I get it. Like, you know, I don't tell him everything.
28:59.500 --> 29:04.220 I love that picture too. I mean, so many, my favorite photos are with Manson and they're just
29:04.220 --> 29:08.460 fun. You know, we get along so great. Just, you know, we're just buddies. It's just, it's good.
29:08.460 --> 29:13.580 And he's, he's probably my favorite rock star. I would say my favorite performer for sure.
29:13.580 --> 29:20.060 I love that. This is actually queuing up perfectly because the next subject we want to talk about
29:20.780 --> 29:25.740 is the dead to the world VHS. You were the director for that.
29:25.740 --> 29:28.540 I was unbeknownst to me, I became the director.
29:29.500 --> 29:33.580 Okay. This is going to get interesting, but I just want to say really fast. I had to rewatch it,
29:33.580 --> 29:37.580 obviously, because I wanted to make sure I know what I'm talking about. I haven't watched it in years.
29:37.580 --> 29:44.140 And I said this earlier in the intro that, that you captured the climate of that era so well. And
29:44.940 --> 29:47.100 it just is so intense.
29:47.660 --> 29:51.580 It really was. It was fucking crazy. But fuck it was.
29:51.580 --> 29:55.580 And how fast it happened. And then it was 96, right?
29:55.580 --> 29:59.020 Yeah. So how that thing happened is that Tony called me and said,
29:59.660 --> 30:06.060 Hey, Joseph, do you want to come and do, we need live photos and a quick portrait session
30:06.060 --> 30:11.260 with Manson on the road. So I think I went to him like in, oh, I would say Pennsylvania.
30:11.260 --> 30:16.540 Yeah. It was Pennsylvania. It was the first one. And I did a lot of really great live photos,
30:16.540 --> 30:23.980 fun photos backstage, shower photos, had a lot of fun. Then literally, like I got home in that day,
30:23.980 --> 30:30.060 Tony's like, do you want to make a movie? Do you want to make a documentary on Manson for this tour,
30:30.060 --> 30:34.300 a live show documentary? And I talked on the phone with Manson a bit about a week,
30:34.300 --> 30:38.220 I think when I was in Pennsylvania that day, you know, we stayed up all night
30:38.220 --> 30:42.860 and probably talked a little bit about something like that. I'm not a documentary filmmaker. I
30:42.860 --> 30:48.060 really have no idea what I'm doing. And I don't ever have imposter syndrome, but I just feel like
30:48.060 --> 30:52.540 I just fly by the seat of my pants and it's always kind of worked out. Manson was like,
30:52.540 --> 30:59.260 let's make a documentary. I'm like, that was great. So Jim Lanzo was on tour with us as well. So
30:59.260 --> 31:06.780 he helped do camera work as well. Literally, we just, I missed around like, what camera can we use?
31:06.780 --> 31:13.100 Like I imagine we're using like 16 millimeter film, but these new Panasonic digital cameras
31:13.100 --> 31:18.700 had come out, but they were digital to tape. And there's just those little tapes. I went to some
31:18.700 --> 31:26.220 guy in New Jersey who had like, six of them. And he rented us all four of them at once in a big case,
31:26.220 --> 31:30.700 a growing case, not knowing that. I didn't know if I was going to be gone for a week,
31:30.700 --> 31:36.380 but I was gone for at least six months with these cameras. And I think the second or third night,
31:36.380 --> 31:42.220 I was out in the pit, getting footage of them from the pit, like that, that vantage point camera
31:42.220 --> 31:48.060 totally got robbed, got smashed. Oh my God. Yeah. So I'm just thinking of some of the funny things.
31:48.060 --> 31:53.260 So that we came back and that guy was, he made so much money renting these cameras best. He's like,
31:53.260 --> 31:56.940 well, I don't think it's a, you guys can just keep them. These are destroyed. So I think at one
31:56.940 --> 32:01.740 point I had those cameras for a while. Anyway, so man, some of those guys asked me to do it.
32:01.740 --> 32:07.580 And I just kind of on the fly, figured out how to make a documentary. So then every night we'd watch
32:07.580 --> 32:12.540 that. I mean, it was, there's funny, there's a great, there was an impetus to do it, which doesn't
32:12.540 --> 32:20.940 really show up in the movie as much. Ben Benders did a movie about Yoshi Yamamoto, which was about making
32:20.940 --> 32:26.140 his clothes. It's called Plain Cities and Clothes or something like that. You can look it up.
32:26.140 --> 32:31.180 A lot of the, a lot of the elements of that documentary, that documentary appeared to me
32:31.180 --> 32:36.540 like days before I left. And I watched it once there, rented the, from Kim's video, I remember
32:36.540 --> 32:43.900 renting the VHS. And I wanted to use a lot of those things. He would put like TVs, he would interview
32:43.900 --> 32:48.620 Yoshi and he would put a TV in the, the little, one of those little baby TVs,
32:49.180 --> 32:53.660 on the dashboard of his car and drive around and film the TV. So it kind of separated you
32:54.220 --> 33:00.060 from this. So I would show those things to Manson. We would talk about it, but the craziest thing about
33:00.060 --> 33:08.380 these Panasonic cameras is that they shoot in a, you can shoot in a 16-9 format letterbox. But then if you
33:10.860 --> 33:16.060 turn that thing off, it takes the image and it stretches it out long and skinny to make it the
33:16.060 --> 33:22.300 regular, like four by five TV format, which is what that movie's in. Then it makes Manson all long and
33:22.300 --> 33:27.900 skinny. He's like, oh, fuck. I love that. So then we, we shot the whole movie in letterbox and then
33:27.900 --> 33:33.740 never de-squeezed it. So it's now long and skinny. That's a technical thing. I know you, everyone can
33:33.740 --> 33:38.620 jump up and down about it. So he's falling skinny in that movie because of, well, he is falling skinny.
33:38.620 --> 33:45.820 He's skinnier now than he's ever been, but, um, he's, uh, it's definitely the weird technical
33:45.820 --> 33:52.780 thing. So then literally I just went out on the road with them for back and forth over six months.
33:53.340 --> 33:58.940 And I'd never been on the road for that anywhere near that length, but any band, I did a little
33:58.940 --> 34:04.300 bit of a couple of dates and did some more thing, a little bit of video, but back back then it was
34:04.300 --> 34:10.460 a humongous video camera. Everything got really small. Like the Panasonic camera was the size of a
34:10.460 --> 34:15.580 big lunch box. It was really small and it was great. What a great little camera that was,
34:15.580 --> 34:21.100 but they just kind of evolved it. Once we started seeing all the footage and when you see the show every
34:21.100 --> 34:27.180 night, then I started to know where he was going to be, the cues. And then between him and me,
34:27.180 --> 34:31.580 he was like, no, you want to get that. You just get right the fuck in front of me. I do not care.
34:31.580 --> 34:38.540 But the fans hated it. People were throwing it at me and spitting at me. And because I was blocking
34:38.540 --> 34:43.100 their view of Manson, cause I was like right in front of them. I get right in front of people
34:43.100 --> 34:49.020 on stage. I'm six foot. There's great footage that Jim got. And I don't know where it's at.
34:49.020 --> 34:57.020 I've seen it a bunch of times. I would wear the overalls that the crew wore on stage.
34:57.020 --> 35:02.860 It were these kind of blue, gray workers overalls and the silver helmet. After I got the first couple
35:02.860 --> 35:08.060 nights, so many people were throwing things at me. I was getting tagged and spit on. So I'd wear this,
35:08.620 --> 35:13.340 this outfit to kind of blend in a little bit more. I mean, right in front of Manson shooting
35:13.340 --> 35:19.740 in and the entire audience is spitting at me. There's just huge loogies just, you can see them
35:19.740 --> 35:25.260 from the light, the light. You can see all these loogies hitting me and Jim zooms in in this fuzzy
35:25.260 --> 35:30.780 thing. And you can see it like dribbling off the side of my ear, big loogies, but I'm not moving.
35:30.780 --> 35:36.300 I got that camera, I'm crouched down in front of Manson and getting that fucking shot. So then a lot of that
35:36.300 --> 35:41.740 footage, my gosh, and Jim got a good portion of it. I don't know which one's ours, all the backstage
35:41.740 --> 35:49.100 footage, but then Zep, who's now sadly passed away, the wonderful Zep, he started filming everything
35:49.100 --> 35:56.220 as well. And Zep went like to everywhere, to Germany, to Tokyo. And he got a lot of those really creepy,
35:56.220 --> 36:01.340 like all that stuff, like quickie puking, that Zep sort of thing. I think very little of it is mine.
36:01.340 --> 36:07.420 I think a little bit of it might be mine, but a lot of that, a lot of that kind of more VHS
36:07.420 --> 36:17.420 looking fucked up stuff was Zep's. So the movie took a while to edit. We edited the majority of
36:17.420 --> 36:22.700 the live footage and a lot of the creepy stuff in New York with Candace Corelli and Julie Bird.
36:22.700 --> 36:28.460 And we just spent days and they had, Interscope had a budget for it. We would just sit there and
36:28.460 --> 36:32.780 edit it for weeks. So it was like two or three weeks, maybe a month of editing this thing.
36:32.780 --> 36:38.540 And we would order sushi every day and eat sushi and, you know, get in trouble other ways while
36:38.540 --> 36:43.580 we're editing this thing. And I would send man some VHS tapes. They liked it a lot, but then we entered,
36:44.140 --> 36:52.620 me bringing the, all the footage to LA on drives and time codes or whatever. And we continued to edit it
36:52.620 --> 36:57.980 in LA. And while I was in LA, that's when I started to live with Manson. So it was super,
36:57.980 --> 37:04.380 well, at first we had a, an editing suite at the Sunset Marquis for about a month. Maybe, yeah,
37:04.380 --> 37:10.060 it was probably about a month, like a one bedroom apartment there. But the reason they wanted to get
37:10.060 --> 37:13.180 me have an editing suite there is so they could party there every night.
37:13.180 --> 37:14.940 Okay. Of course.
37:14.940 --> 37:19.580 I couldn't get any work done, but there's another editor that came and sat and edited with me and,
37:19.580 --> 37:23.660 you know, it wasn't so much Manson. Manson's not a big go to Sunset Marquis and party guy,
37:23.660 --> 37:28.460 but it was Twiggy and Zimmy and, you know, they would bring, you know, everyone from,
37:28.460 --> 37:33.820 who's the guy Fabio? I can't tell you all the crazy shit that went down, but I never got any sleep.
37:33.820 --> 37:40.620 Yeah. And plus it was expensive to keep me and this crew at this thing. Then I ended up just
37:40.620 --> 37:45.340 moving in with Manson and there was a extra room. They finally got a house. That was the other part.
37:45.980 --> 37:49.820 That was, that was the other part of it too, is they didn't have a place to live yet. Any of them.
37:50.460 --> 37:54.780 Um, you can imagine how hard it is throwing a house to Marilyn Manson, especially then.
37:54.780 --> 37:56.540 I can't even imagine back then.
37:56.540 --> 37:59.100 Yeah. Then it would be a little crazy.
37:59.100 --> 38:03.740 Yeah. But then they got the house on beach and old drive and, um, you know, the famous one
38:03.740 --> 38:07.740 with the white room and everything. And then I was back and forth back to New York.
38:07.740 --> 38:12.460 Then I couldn't stay there and we finished the movie, but that's where like a lot of, uh,
38:13.020 --> 38:17.740 Manson in the white room, him walking around the pool naked, throwing a bass in it.
38:17.740 --> 38:18.620 Oh yeah.
38:19.260 --> 38:23.260 Cause you know, giving us more time, we kept shooting and shooting and making,
38:23.260 --> 38:28.140 coming up with weird things. And so that's what we did. That's where, you know, the infamous group
38:28.140 --> 38:33.820 that no one's seen. The movie was done by that time when we were just getting in trouble basically.
38:33.820 --> 38:37.580 Do you have a favorite memory from that whole adventure?
38:37.580 --> 38:41.740 You know, when we reconnected recently, we got to really sit around. It was the first time of
38:41.740 --> 38:45.740 years. It was just me and him getting around to talk about stuff. And I had to tell him,
38:45.740 --> 38:49.020 thank you so much for making me part of this world with you because
38:50.220 --> 38:54.620 without, you know, you're the one that did it. You invited me in and it's kind of emotional actually
38:54.620 --> 39:00.780 for me. Cause it was such a, I was such a big kiss rock and roll fan as a kid. Just, you know, Bowie,
39:00.780 --> 39:05.900 kiss everything. And I never imagined that I would get to go out the road with my kiss.
39:06.540 --> 39:12.940 You know, they're, they're like menses larger than life. His music and his art and his philosophies
39:12.940 --> 39:19.660 completely aligned with me as a person. And he was better than all those other bands. So I got to
39:19.660 --> 39:26.220 live that through all the nineties. It was crazy. I never expected that to happen. I don't think I
39:26.220 --> 39:31.420 expected it or thought about it, you know, but then it did. So I, you know, if you look back later
39:31.420 --> 39:36.620 and we have to remember with rock stars too, we started looking at all the pictures we had taken
39:36.620 --> 39:40.860 together and he's like, you took that one and you took that one too. I'm like, yeah. So they don't
39:40.860 --> 39:49.340 remember who photographed them. It becomes a blur. So if it's a blur to you or me, imagine how much of a blur it is.
39:49.340 --> 39:55.980 Yeah. Manson's been photographed by everybody. So what I'm trying to get at is my memory of it is
39:55.980 --> 40:01.260 just the fact that I got to do it. It was really wonderful. I never spoke with Manson about this or
40:01.260 --> 40:08.780 what I really liked about Manson's live shows is that he, he didn't use Verilites or any of those
40:08.780 --> 40:15.340 expensive spinning lights that change 800 colors and all that. He kept it really old school,
40:15.340 --> 40:21.820 especially Antichrist. And it was like just cans. So to change the light color on the can,
40:22.620 --> 40:27.420 which is a kind of light, you'd have to have a gel in front of it. So to make the stage white,
40:27.420 --> 40:32.620 you'd have to have another row of lights that were white. You know what I'm saying? So anyways,
40:32.620 --> 40:39.340 his whole stage show put the money in the right place. It made it more minimal and more raw, more real.
40:39.340 --> 40:45.500 And, you know, back to being a dork, but more like kiss, you know, those old school shows were all just
40:46.540 --> 40:51.180 you know, now, you know, soon after that, you know, even at that time, the nails were used in a
40:51.180 --> 40:57.100 lot of Verilites and each Verilite costed three grand to buy or six grand to buy, but you know,
40:57.660 --> 41:03.180 thousands and thousands of dollars and they break them all the time. So then they have to buy it. The
41:03.180 --> 41:10.620 $5,000 light. Manson had a bunch of lights that costed 400 bucks each all over the stage. And that
41:10.620 --> 41:16.380 just was cool. Yeah. No, he just, he takes little bits and pieces. Like we love Tim Burton or he did.
41:16.380 --> 41:22.780 So he took a little piece of Tim Burton and put it in there. Like he's not afraid to kind of show his
41:22.780 --> 41:29.420 influences right out in front. So there's, there's a cut of it, which I have, which I don't know what to
41:29.420 --> 41:36.300 do with it. Manson doesn't know either. That is before the lawyers got to it. And we went out in
41:36.300 --> 41:42.620 the road with, I would go outside and I would photograph and film and interview morning gang
41:42.620 --> 41:50.140 Christians, weirdos. And we had from there, a lawyer, the lawyer, an iron clawed release saying,
41:50.140 --> 41:55.100 you can't sue us. You won't do anything, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. By consenting to do this,
41:55.100 --> 42:00.140 yes, you'll be in this film. And you would film them holding up the release. If you can get them
42:00.140 --> 42:05.260 to show a driver's license or something to really identify them. And we have all that. And we did the
42:05.260 --> 42:12.620 first cut, which had all the crazy morning and Christians. We got stuck someplace in the South
42:14.140 --> 42:19.660 by weather and they couldn't play. And they had to sit around for like four days. Some weird guy that
42:19.660 --> 42:24.700 worked at the hotel who brought hookers and everything. And it was just, it was hilarious.
42:24.700 --> 42:30.540 We got him to sign it and filmed him and everything. So then went to Interscope and it went to lawyers
42:30.540 --> 42:38.540 and it came back with like a two inch piece of paper, a book of all the things we had to take out.
42:38.540 --> 42:44.140 But why? But why? We have all these releases like, you know, that's, um, and they're going,
42:44.140 --> 42:49.580 well, no, you know, the releases are great, but that's not going to stop every one of these people
42:49.660 --> 42:55.820 from suing Manson. And then he has to pay. Remember that moment when we were just sitting in the white
42:55.820 --> 43:00.060 room or the kitchen or whatever. Yeah. They're just going to kind of think they'll just sue you,
43:00.060 --> 43:04.940 every one of them, no matter what you have on a piece of paper. And then you'll have to pay for
43:04.940 --> 43:09.980 lawyers to deal with the lawsuits. And we're like, ah, fuck. So Manson, let's just get rid of it.
43:09.980 --> 43:14.060 We got some of this stuff in, but if you watch the movie, there's a lot of big blurs and voice
43:14.060 --> 43:20.380 changes. That's because you can't, you can't put the movie out and not get sued. Obviously that
43:20.380 --> 43:26.140 happened to you. Manson got sued many times down the road, any rockstar. They don't tell you that
43:26.140 --> 43:31.180 you become a public figure. You're going to get sued. When it came out, it was a blast. Um,
43:31.180 --> 43:37.580 I got offered a whole bunch more documentaries to do and stuff, but I became, I don't know why I
43:37.580 --> 43:43.660 didn't do more documentaries. It's amazing. I just, I love, I love all the closeups.
43:43.660 --> 43:47.660 I was going to say that's the defining documentary of my childhood.
43:51.100 --> 43:59.020 So a lot of the fans want to know about the apple of Sodom music video. We actually did
43:59.020 --> 44:04.220 an episode for the podcast about Manson's most controversial music videos. And a lot of the
44:04.220 --> 44:08.860 fans wrote in saying that they think that apple of Sodom is one of his most controversial music
44:08.860 --> 44:15.500 videos of that video was that I was all of a sudden becoming a video director. I was getting offered
44:16.140 --> 44:21.500 all these different videos. And I had a, uh, that was, you know, you do treatments. I wasn't getting
44:21.500 --> 44:27.500 them because I didn't have anything that really spoke to my voice. I had done a bunch of dopey music
44:27.500 --> 44:33.660 videos as everyone did back then. I still like them. They're on my site in the back. So my agency,
44:33.660 --> 44:41.180 I'll just call them aperture. They offered to give me like four grand or three grand to make music video.
44:41.740 --> 44:49.260 And I said, that sounds great. And I got Manson to say I could use apple of Sodom and that he would be in
44:49.260 --> 44:55.260 it. He didn't end up being in the original footage, all that footage of the girl in the room and the
44:55.260 --> 45:01.900 blood and everything. That's just me being a complete idiot in my, having fun in my weird little studio
45:02.460 --> 45:08.540 with a DP. I can't remember her name. So basically I funded that video and my, my, uh, production people
45:08.540 --> 45:15.180 did. It took me so long to finish it that by the time I finished the video, got Manson to be in it.
45:15.180 --> 45:19.100 They closed up. They were called automatic. That's what it was called. They closed up.
45:19.100 --> 45:24.620 So I never really got to use it to get me more music videos. Some of the fun things about it is
45:24.620 --> 45:32.620 I shot it in my, uh, dead pigeon rat infested studio on 26th street between six and seven.
45:33.180 --> 45:41.180 The girl that's in the video, I, I went to a party in the Lower East side for some tech guy and they had
45:41.180 --> 45:50.300 all these naked girls handing out the bald naked girls painted a color, handing out little cups with
45:50.300 --> 45:57.580 a, um, a little jello shot that had like an eighth of a hit of acid in it. So then of course me and my
45:57.580 --> 46:02.220 girl at the time, we ate like five of those, six of them. So we had a whole hit of acid. And that's
46:02.220 --> 46:08.860 how I met that girl. And she basically, I doing this video and you'd be perfect for it. Plus I wanted a
46:08.860 --> 46:14.460 naked girl to be in the video. And we were thinking bald caps and all that stuff. And she
46:14.460 --> 46:20.700 was already completely bald. She called herself a sex therapist, but she was just like a well-to-be
46:20.700 --> 46:27.180 prostitute that made her money. And she had clients that she would give them therapy, teach them how to
46:27.180 --> 46:35.180 be lovers. That was her thing. And she did it and she was happy to do it. She died soon after that video
46:35.180 --> 46:40.780 of an overdose. Oh my God. She lived like another year or two, I think after the video.
46:41.740 --> 46:47.020 So I finished the video finished around the time she died. So yes, it was about a year and a half
46:47.020 --> 46:51.580 after we shot that we finally finished it. Cause I had to get Manson to go and do his bit
46:52.220 --> 46:59.100 in Los Angeles and it kept falling apart. And I took, to be honest, I enticed Manson to do the video
46:59.100 --> 47:03.420 because I would do a free photo shoot for him as well. And that's all those pictures where he's
47:03.420 --> 47:07.100 wearing the dead or alive eye patch. You've seen those, right? Yes.
47:07.100 --> 47:14.380 Yes. And cellophane and all that, that all came from that day. So he did it in the famous Curt and
47:14.380 --> 47:21.660 Bart styling team styled that shoot and Curt and Bart are, uh, did the hunger games. If you look them
47:21.660 --> 47:28.940 up on Instagram, they're like some of the biggest movie stylists there are now. Wow. So then it took
47:28.940 --> 47:34.460 me a while to finish it. Like you can see the kid inside the screen and all that, all that's rotoscoping
47:34.460 --> 47:39.420 that took forever. A lot of people worked on that for free and I finally put it out. So when I gave it
47:39.420 --> 47:45.020 to him, it was way too late to promote Apple of Sodom there. We were already on to mechanical animals.
47:45.020 --> 47:51.020 So that point they started doing that stuff. It never got released when we showed it to MTV.
47:52.060 --> 47:58.620 They said, you have to hide the nipples. And then, so we went and spent money and hid the nipples
47:58.620 --> 48:02.860 and then they go, oh, no, we're not going to show it. Because we know the nipples are there.
48:02.860 --> 48:07.580 It's kind of similar to mechanical animals. Oh, we see the nipples. So you have to get rid of them.
48:07.580 --> 48:12.140 But then, but they're hidden on the packaging by the cellophane and they're gray nipples.
48:12.140 --> 48:14.860 Oh, nice. We know they're there. So you have to get rid of them.
48:14.860 --> 48:16.300 Oh my God.
48:16.300 --> 48:20.860 So, but it did get showed in Canada a lot on much, in much music,
48:20.860 --> 48:24.300 but they never really released it. Like I said, it was kind of my fault.
48:24.300 --> 48:31.420 I kind of took too long, too grandiose of a, of a, of an idea. But in the end, you know,
48:31.420 --> 48:36.140 it's still fun. And everyone says it looks like a tool video, but I've never seen a tool video.
48:36.140 --> 48:40.300 I don't think it looks like a tool video. I don't think it looks like a tool video at all.
48:40.300 --> 48:42.860 Yeah. That's what Twiggy told me. So I was like.
48:42.860 --> 48:44.700 What? No.
48:44.700 --> 48:50.220 Because I don't, you know, it's funny. I'm about to shoot tool in the next couple of weeks here.
48:50.220 --> 48:51.580 Oh my gosh. Congratulations.
48:51.580 --> 48:52.540 That's amazing.
48:52.540 --> 48:53.580 Yeah.
48:53.580 --> 48:59.340 That video kind of came into that and it got, you know, it took me forever to get out on YouTube.
48:59.340 --> 49:04.060 I finally got digitized and put it on YouTube and I put a more crisp version out of it. But,
49:04.060 --> 49:08.220 you know, Manson and me had fun. He loved it. Years later, he absolutely loves the videos. Like,
49:08.220 --> 49:10.220 oh my God, it's my favorite video. I'm like, really?
49:10.220 --> 49:12.380 I know. I'm telling you, it's amazing.
49:12.380 --> 49:15.260 That's your favorite video. The one you didn't want to really release.
49:15.260 --> 49:22.140 The music business about timing and marketing promotion. I have to say, I missed the window to
49:22.140 --> 49:26.140 get it done. I should have made it a lot simpler. I should have just gone to NLA,
49:26.140 --> 49:31.260 built it, shot it, and had it done really fast because David Lynch and the cats were all hot to
49:31.260 --> 49:37.580 get it. But it took me a year and there you go. There you go. Joe, watch the video.
49:41.740 --> 49:46.300 Let's talk about mechanical animals because that was absolutely mind blowing.
49:47.180 --> 49:52.460 It was all this time building up to doing mechanical animals, you know, doing the movie,
49:52.460 --> 49:57.420 doing the book thing, doing the music video, all those things. At that point,
49:57.420 --> 50:02.140 I lived with Manson for about six to eight months in the Hollywood Hills. And we just, it was,
50:02.700 --> 50:07.660 the funny thing about that is I was there during the recording of mechanical animals. I knew that
50:07.660 --> 50:13.100 they were talking to other photographers like Nick Knight, Dal Lin. I've told the story many times,
50:13.100 --> 50:17.740 but I knew those guys were going to the other photographers. And this other photographers won like
50:17.740 --> 50:21.980 a hundred grand to shoot the album cover because, you know, Manson's a big deal at this point.
50:23.260 --> 50:28.700 And they didn't want to pay a hundred grand for it. So I just, I had the ideas from
50:28.700 --> 50:34.140 mechanical animals. And I just, there's probably this, one of the only smartest things I've ever
50:34.140 --> 50:42.860 done is I just kept my mouth shut. I didn't tell my ideas and I had them ready to go. And then one day,
50:42.860 --> 50:49.580 I went to the studio, they were doing something, maybe it was with the sneaker pimps, whatever,
50:49.580 --> 50:55.500 they're in. Tony Manson took me outside at a picnic table outside in LA and said, you know,
50:55.500 --> 51:02.700 we want you to do the album pictures. And I'm like, oh, great. Yay. And they go, what are your ideas?
51:02.700 --> 51:08.780 And then me and Manson started talking about our ideas and both his and my ideas completely
51:08.780 --> 51:12.860 meshed together because I knew the name of the record. At one point it was supposed to be called
51:12.860 --> 51:18.540 Great White World. It's by the mechanical animals. I knew that was the name of the record just because
51:18.540 --> 51:23.900 I think other Tony or someone had said, no, that's the name of the record. So I knew it. So it all kind
51:23.900 --> 51:29.580 of formulated. And a lot of those ideas are just pictures that were in the ether, you know, prior to
51:29.580 --> 51:33.900 that. There's a couple of books I'm even looking at right now that had androgynous characters,
51:33.900 --> 51:38.700 but it was basically, my idea was to make him androgynous like diamond dogs. And he really
51:38.700 --> 51:44.140 wanted to be like diamond dogs, like Remus and Romulus with three sets of boobs. And I go,
51:44.140 --> 51:50.140 but that I knew I just, it took a long time to get the, to the photo shoot. So we did three sets
51:50.140 --> 51:55.180 of boobs on the first day, which takes a whole day to put together. And it just couldn't make
51:55.180 --> 52:01.900 him look sexy. It just did not look sexy. So the whole first day was three boobs and was kind of wasted
52:01.900 --> 52:08.540 because I knew that's just not sexy. So the album cover is my original idea.
52:08.700 --> 52:14.860 Super simple on gray. And you're just a female. That's it. You you're androgynous. You're a
52:14.860 --> 52:20.940 mechanical and that's it. So we went around all these different paths to get right to the gray
52:20.940 --> 52:26.780 background. It was simple studio light. And that was it. And I didn't normally shoot like that. I'm not
52:26.780 --> 52:34.540 like a real clean, normal thing, but I knew that the lighting had to be beautiful and it was all
52:34.540 --> 52:39.180 about what he was going to do. And I remember when we did the first set of Polaroids and laid it out,
52:39.180 --> 52:45.420 he's like, Oh, this looks really great. And then we shot like 20 rolls, you know, 22, 20 rolls,
52:45.420 --> 52:49.820 whatever. There's so many rolls, so many contact sheets for that cover because we wanted to cover it,
52:49.820 --> 52:54.780 but it was like, it was, uh, it took that two days to get done just that picture. But then we did a
52:54.780 --> 53:00.220 bunch of other ones, you know, the one on the couch and the hoods and there are many other dots, but a
53:00.220 --> 53:04.780 lot of crazy shit happened on that shoot. So it was kind of drawn out for too long, like too much
53:04.780 --> 53:11.020 time to prepare too many ideas. And then, so the retouching on it, you remember that's pre-Photoshop.
53:11.020 --> 53:17.420 Right. There was no Photoshop. It was a company called Barco, which is a Photoshop Adobe eventually
53:17.420 --> 53:25.100 bought. And they had these little plugins called Squizzy and Squizzy is what you could shape the
53:25.100 --> 53:31.420 body with. That now is called Transform. You can change anything, but that we did three pictures that
53:31.420 --> 53:39.980 took us about a week of picture. Wow. So it took about a month to retouch. It took forever. And then
53:39.980 --> 53:46.140 this is also the fun part about it too, is that when we did that thing, email had just started.
53:46.140 --> 53:54.460 So both of us got our first email address. Mine was good head ink on hotmail. I think it was bugs
53:54.460 --> 54:00.540 and fester on AOL or something like that. So it was the first time we sent emails to each other.
54:01.340 --> 54:06.940 They had emails was to send the pictures back and forth. You know, we're sitting in our little rooms.
54:06.940 --> 54:13.980 Right. It's very appropriate for the era for sure. Yeah. Right. We're altering mechanical,
54:13.980 --> 54:17.980 you know, Transformers. You know, there's funny things like a man said things I'm full of ship,
54:17.980 --> 54:22.860 but we were having the hardest time making his waist really feel like a woman. It just wasn't.
54:23.420 --> 54:29.740 And in the same studio, there are other retouchers on monitors with an eye shot of me. And it was a
54:29.740 --> 54:36.700 picture of Elle McPherson walking out of the ocean by a photographer named Gilles Ben-Simon. And so we
54:36.700 --> 54:42.620 just got a small file, a JPEG, where it was back then, and laid it on top of Manson's body. The legs
54:42.620 --> 54:48.140 were always the same shape. And we just shaved his hips. Wow. We did an interview together. He goes,
54:48.140 --> 54:52.940 all that's bullshit. You're lying. And I'm going, no, no, dude, what, what? How would I make that up?
54:52.940 --> 54:57.660 Anyhow, so that's a little behind the scenes fact of that, but it took forever. That's why there's
54:57.660 --> 55:02.540 only like one, two, three pictures that were heavily retouched, you know, from that time.
55:02.540 --> 55:05.740 Can we talk about just real fast, Screaming Mad George?
55:05.740 --> 55:11.500 Screaming Mad George is amazing. He, he, I think he got deported or had to go back to Japan for his
55:11.500 --> 55:17.580 family. Oh, and that's why he's in Japan now, but I think he likes it there. He's just a really,
55:17.580 --> 55:23.900 I mean, just that's the, he's like me. He knows that doing this art, you don't get too many artists
55:23.900 --> 55:28.300 to work with. So you just fucking do it. He wasn't like a fighting about what the budget was going to
55:28.300 --> 55:34.380 be. We had gone to all these other special effects artists, even Harry Winston's laboratory and stuff
55:34.380 --> 55:39.900 like that, or, and they were like, they wanted a million dollars to do it, some boobs. And so George
55:39.900 --> 55:44.620 is like, no, this, and Manson, you know, got him probably a lot of work. And George, you know, had a
55:44.620 --> 55:48.380 place in the valley. I have a lot of great pictures of me dragging Manson out to the valley
55:48.380 --> 55:54.300 where they had to do a cast of his test and a cast of his feet. And, uh, it, it was funny. We're in
55:54.300 --> 55:59.500 this place and all the weird movies he worked on. He did a lot of stuff. He had a really great studio.
55:59.500 --> 56:05.180 And the sad part is when Wikipedia came out and there was a Wikipedia page of a mechanical animals
56:05.180 --> 56:11.820 cover. They said it was industrial light and magic did the makeup. Oh, not true.
56:11.820 --> 56:18.620 Yeah. Because I was talking to Jenna, I was like, I can't find who did the prosthetics for
56:18.620 --> 56:23.180 mechanical animals. And she was actually able to find that it was screaming mad George.
56:23.180 --> 56:24.940 Yeah. But it's hard to find.
56:24.940 --> 56:32.140 Yeah. It's, you know, the other weird thing about the mechanical animals packaging, they credit me
56:32.140 --> 56:34.780 and they put my phone number. Oh my God.
56:34.780 --> 56:37.820 What? Why in the world would you put my
56:37.820 --> 56:43.900 fucking phone number? It was my agency's number. And my agent was just a woman with a phone. It
56:43.900 --> 56:50.220 wasn't like an agency with a phone, you know, 80 phones. And it did eventually become a bigger agency.
56:50.220 --> 56:54.780 But what I'm going to get at is they put her phone number in there. So then immediately the record
56:54.780 --> 57:01.500 comes out. And of course you, a gazillion people. And she said for years and years, even after I had
57:01.500 --> 57:06.780 left, I'd still get a call once in a while. Of course. Oh my God. That's so funny.
57:06.780 --> 57:10.780 But that's, you know, these are just kind of the weird things that happened. But that album cover
57:10.780 --> 57:15.900 was like, I remember going to Times Square and it was this huge billboard of it. And we all were in
57:15.900 --> 57:21.420 the limousine and stuck our heads up the sunroof and looked at the thing. And, you know, it was fun.
57:21.420 --> 57:25.340 It was a deal changer in my life. And it's like, that's how I got American Vogue.
57:25.340 --> 57:33.260 I shot for American Vogue for 10 years because of that album cover. Wow.
57:35.260 --> 57:41.900 Let's talk about your most recent projects with Manson. Me and Manson remained good friends
57:42.540 --> 57:47.740 over the years. After the Mechanical Animals, we talked about doing something together once or twice.
57:48.380 --> 57:53.580 And it didn't, it didn't happen for whatever reason. I even hung out and listened to The Pale
57:53.580 --> 57:56.780 Emperor. We got together, but then he found that really great architectural
57:57.500 --> 58:02.620 with this beautiful photo. You see, Manson has really good taste in artists. Through his whole
58:02.620 --> 58:09.420 legal troubles with the, with a bad ex-girlfriend, I just, I support him. I know that guy. He's not
58:09.420 --> 58:15.180 that guy. If anything, he was so the opposite. I don't know. The whole, that whole thing for him,
58:15.180 --> 58:19.900 he's like, you know, if anything could help me get clean and get my shit together. You know,
58:19.900 --> 58:24.460 it's probably a good thing that happened in a weird way. Me and Jenna haven't talked about that.
58:24.460 --> 58:28.540 We just reconnected. I think Manson did one of those things. You try to reconnect with people in
58:28.540 --> 58:35.340 your life that you kind of lost. So I was just doing stuff on Instagram and he just messaged me
58:35.340 --> 58:39.260 out of nowhere. And I said to him, I'll remember him going, oh, that's great. Oh no, it's so great
58:39.260 --> 58:44.380 to hear from me. He's like, we should get together and, you know, hang out. Like, let's do it. So we went
58:44.380 --> 58:52.620 and met at Figaro Cafe and had some, uh, some tea and just hung out. He knows me. He's seen me
58:52.620 --> 58:57.980 through all these years, but we didn't really see each other for 20 years about. So it was just great.
58:57.980 --> 59:03.180 And then, you know, the, the process of doing the photos is very similar to them before, but now we
59:03.180 --> 59:09.340 have the, we can do, you know, the JPEGs and mood boards back and forth. And we just kind of
59:09.340 --> 59:13.980 did that over a couple of days, hung out a couple of days. And he's such a cat magnet.
59:14.540 --> 59:20.540 that I have two cats and one little cat, the girl cat never comes near anybody. She hides.
59:20.540 --> 59:26.860 He came and sat up right next to him. Oh my God. Came and sat in his lap. And it's like, and he's
59:26.860 --> 59:33.100 allergic to cats. So he gets, he has hairless cats because he loves cats, but he's allergic to cats.
59:33.100 --> 59:37.820 So he started getting hay fever from the cat, but they were just, you know, two black cats sitting
59:37.820 --> 59:41.820 in a guy in all black leather. It was beautiful. But for Manson, he is the sweetest,
59:41.820 --> 59:51.100 genuine, smartest, you know, human. And he's really dedicated to his art and his whole life.
59:51.100 --> 59:57.340 It's like, you know, Warhol, his whole life is art. So everything that's happened from beginning to now,
59:57.340 --> 01:00:03.980 it's all just part of the, of the art, you know, trials and tribulations changes things, but that's
01:00:04.540 --> 01:00:09.740 part of the art. And I think he understands that. But we got back together and it just went really
01:00:09.740 --> 01:00:15.260 similarly. We shot this thing in my living room because it was like no budget. I said, I'll do it
01:00:15.260 --> 01:00:19.180 for whatever, you know, I'll do it for really cheap, whatever you need. Because I really do owe a lot of
01:00:19.180 --> 01:00:26.700 my career to him just giving me chances. Yes. It's like, I just did a bunch of, I just did a music
01:00:26.700 --> 01:00:34.060 video and pictures for Billy Corgan solo tour called, uh, Billy Corgan and the machines of God
01:00:34.780 --> 01:00:40.860 on tour. I just did that because, and I'd shot pumpkins before, but Manson and Lindsay said,
01:00:40.860 --> 01:00:44.540 Hey, you should work with Joseph. You saw, I saw him at his birthday party and I said, Hey,
01:00:44.540 --> 01:00:49.260 Billy, blah, blah, blah. Did you go back Joseph? Oh yeah. He's great. So then I got a really big gig.
01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:54.220 And then the, with this Billy and then Billy's like, that was really smooth. I love this.
01:00:54.220 --> 01:00:58.940 The pumpkins are doing something new. We need this. I just shot the pumpkins for that. And that's,
01:00:58.940 --> 01:01:04.700 those are big gigs, but that, but what I wanted to get at is that Manson told me that, or at least
01:01:04.700 --> 01:01:08.780 plans to see Manson text me like, Hey, would you work with Billy on something? And I'm like,
01:01:09.500 --> 01:01:13.900 let me think about it. Yeah, of course. But so, you know, the shoot went really great. It was fun.
01:01:14.540 --> 01:01:20.300 The back and forth was great. You know, he's really mellow. He looks great. The weird thing
01:01:20.300 --> 01:01:25.420 about me and Manson, I don't know why, but he always tends to get almost naked and paints himself
01:01:25.420 --> 01:01:30.460 white. And I'm like, why do we always get naked? He's comfortable with you.
01:01:31.020 --> 01:01:36.940 Why do you get naked? I think part of it too, is that I didn't, never can get the right fashion.
01:01:37.660 --> 01:01:43.660 So I just like, well, fashion, just be half naked. So we just got together. It felt really good.
01:01:43.660 --> 01:01:48.300 And it's, it's obvious about the pictures. I mean, those are the simplest pictures,
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:52.940 and that's usually the best thing. The simpler, the better, you know, that's a little Epson
01:01:52.940 --> 01:01:59.180 projector that I got from my girl's business or her company shut down during COVID and all the,
01:01:59.180 --> 01:02:04.460 it was a tech company and all the shit that was there, we just rated it all. That's Epson projector
01:02:04.460 --> 01:02:09.820 is the black square just pushed against Manson. The glass was the only thing that was expensive.
01:02:09.820 --> 01:02:12.780 That's not like a post thing that was actually in the picture.
01:02:12.780 --> 01:02:17.820 No, it's a real piece of black tempered glass, but it was 500 bucks and I got to them in case
01:02:17.820 --> 01:02:23.420 I fucked it up. So then we smacked it once with a hammer twice. Boom, boom. And it was perfect.
01:02:23.420 --> 01:02:27.740 You know, there it is. I still have it. It's business in here. And these are all like a broken mirror.
01:02:27.740 --> 01:02:32.940 I just saw an image of someone with a mirror. And then he had an image that was like some apostle
01:02:32.940 --> 01:02:37.580 holding a mirror that was the shape of the mirror we wanted. And I took that to the glass guy and he
01:02:37.580 --> 01:02:43.020 got me a piece of mirror, just that size here. Manson's hand. It was just simple. And that's,
01:02:43.020 --> 01:02:47.420 you know, and it was fun. Hey man, it was really wonderful chat with you guys. I'm going to go see
01:02:47.420 --> 01:02:53.260 Mickey 17. Okay. Real fast though. When are we expecting this book that you're going to be putting out?
01:02:53.260 --> 01:02:57.340 Wow. You're not the only person. I have people who want to publish it. They're like,
01:02:57.340 --> 01:03:01.660 what's your problem? I'm like, I don't know. It's a dopamine hit to do new work.
01:03:03.100 --> 01:03:09.180 To go backwards and look at it. Right. It's not the same hit. Oh, really?
01:03:10.780 --> 01:03:17.260 No, I mean, it's like, I don't like to look backwards. Like I don't dream about things in the past.
01:03:17.260 --> 01:03:23.180 It's a procrastination thing. I will get it done. It's okay. It's okay. It's totally
01:03:23.180 --> 01:03:29.660 okay. It's not. I need to find the joy in the old and just push it out. Because I will get a big
01:03:29.660 --> 01:03:35.340 dopamine hit from people once it's out and it's up on the walls, you know, or in a book and a wall or
01:03:36.060 --> 01:03:40.220 like I've done it all planned out. I've got layouts. I've gone through spurts and then I get jobs. Like
01:03:40.220 --> 01:03:46.060 I've got five jobs right now. That's amazing. Congratulations for staying busy.
01:03:46.060 --> 01:03:49.340 Yeah. I'm an old guy that's still a photographer.
01:03:51.100 --> 01:03:55.740 We are one of the best. Thank you very much. Well, thank you so much. We won't hold you anymore.
01:03:55.740 --> 01:04:00.860 Thank you so much for being on the podcast and we cannot wait for this book that will come out
01:04:00.860 --> 01:04:07.340 eventually. It'll come out in the next year. That's my plan. Thank you, Joey. All right, guys.
01:04:07.340 --> 01:04:11.500 Thank you so much for listening to episode six with our interview with Joseph Kulteis. That was
01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:17.180 absolutely incredible. I still cannot believe that he agreed to be on our podcast. He has done such
01:04:17.180 --> 01:04:24.300 incredible work with Manson and we're so glad that their relationship is continuing. And he did the
01:04:24.300 --> 01:04:31.260 most recent album artwork for One Assassination Under God that's not a painting from Manson himself.
01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:37.020 Tour starts on May 2nd in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Alex and myself will both be there.
01:04:37.020 --> 01:04:41.260 You should definitely come say hi. And then, of course, we'll also be in the New Orleans one,
01:04:41.260 --> 01:04:47.660 but that one is quite a bit down the line in the tour. So we will see you guys on the road.
01:04:47.660 --> 01:04:55.180 Until then, you can follow our podcast on Instagram at Manson Podcast. You can follow me on Instagram at
01:04:55.180 --> 01:05:02.860 Alex Sinclair. And you can follow me on Instagram at Jenna X Arkansas. Thank you for listening and we
01:05:02.860 --> 01:05:08.140 will catch you on the next episode.
