Interview:1997/07/24 THE HORROR AND THE HYPE
| THE HORROR AND THE HYPE | ||
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| Interview with Marilyn Manson | ||
| Date | July 24, 1997 | |
| Source | Vue Weekly #95 | |
| Interviewer | Ken Ilcisin | |
- But shock-rocker Marilyn Manson likens himself to the Thin White Duke
There's one thing Marilyn Manson gets from almost everyone — criticism: from accusations about leading children down the road to spiritual ruin or how he's just an Alice Cooper copycat and his shtick is all an act. Some may even criticize him for being disrespectful to the heritage of serial killers by not naming one of his band members after Henry Lucas, a man reported to have slain over 100 women.
A couple of interviews with Brian Warner (the man who became this paradox of beauty and ugliness, good and evil, mixing the personas of supermodel Marilyn Monroe and sociopath Charles Manson) gives me the impression he doesn't care. Sure, during our most recent phone conversation he sounds a little beleaguered and worn down — but he's not going to let public opinion or negative responses break him.
Manson calls me a few hours before he's scheduled to appear on Politically Incorrect. ABC's late-night talk show which forces high-profile personalities to debate current issues. The show will be aired July 30 or 31. The guests will be G. Gordon Liddy, former Brady Bunch mom Florence Henderson and Miss Black America. Manson's already aware of the shit he will draw.
"I think it's funny how some people can't control their emotions during a show like that." says Manson. "I'm the type of person who, if I have emotions, I express it in what I do but if I'm on a show like that I want to discuss things through. However, some people just end up going with their emotions... it'll be interesting to see how many people hate me after that."
Manson has built on his artistie construct and philosophical beliefs since he first came up with the name meld in 1990. After spending a couple of years refining his show in the Florida area, he was noticed by Trent Reznor, the man behind Nine Inch Nails.
Manson's first release, Portrait Of An American Family, hit the shelves in 1994. The first dose of public notice came when Manson supported NIN on tour. Back then he would do things like take off his first pair of pants to reveal shorts and a black strap-on which easily measured 10 inches. Then he pretended to sodomize himself with it. He also produced a cassette, mock-urinated on it and stated "Love that corporate rock" and then threw it into the crowd. People dropped their jaws but no real protest followed.
Back in 1994 we sat on the bleachers at the PNE in Vancouver. It was just after the sound check during his support spot with NIN. He spent just under an hour explaining what he was about, his influences and how he saw the world.
Then came the 1995 release of Smells Like Children, an album of remixes and covers. His version of the Eurythmics "Sweet Dreams (Are Made Or This)" became a Top 40 hit. Despite all this, public reaction to him and the band was meager. A few letters here, a few irate parents there.
And then: 1996's Antichrist Superstar. The single "Beautiful People" hit the Top 10. Now locking him down for a 15-minute phone chat is a major achievement.
The Dead To The World tour rolled across America and people noticed. Letter-writing campaigns, articles in The American Family Association Journal (the same people asking for a ban of Disney due to their pro-homosexual company policies), demands for shows to be banned, court hearings and concert cancellations. The public-venue performances in both Calgary and Winnipeg were cancelled. Manson sees this whole ordeal as a great disappointment.
"It's a shame—for my fans and myself and rock music and the Constitution, although I don't know how it relates to the Constitution in Canada, but particularly for America." says Manson. "I have a lot of things to say. It's disappointing that this music's been tied to controversy since Elvis. I don't think I'm any more controversial than he was.
"When it comes to art and music I don't think people should be trying to ban it but instead they should take the time to explain to their kids what art and music are all about.
"What about Romeo and Juliet — two kids kill themselves. Are they going to try and ban Shakespeare? And the important part is the kids kill themselves because their parents don't understand them.
"The thing is, if it wasn't for people like me defending the right to expression then the people who oppose me wouldn't have the right in the first place to speak against me. I think they should be thanking me."
Actually Manson sees himself bringing benefits to several groups. He points out how his message shows people the importance of being themselves — how it helps them rediscover the true concept of religion. Manson also thinks he's pretty good at filling the coffers of those who rage against him. While the Fundamentalist Right point out quotes like he wanted to be remembered "As the person who brought an end to the age of Christianity." he defends himself by explaining how his thoughts aren't aggression towards belief but against a system which may not work.
"I like to get people away from religion and closer to God, which sometimes means being closer to yourself," says Manson. "It's not the idea of God I dislike, it's the misuse of power.
"Now that I've seen the rest of the world I think North America is backwards in some ways. In some ways religion is much more sacred in Europe but they don't raise a fuss because they acknowledge it as a form of expression.
"In North America it's a business and I'm helping keep them in business. I should strike a percentage deal with all the right-wing groups who are making a profit off me because they're probably making more money than me."
It seems he doesn't have a lot to laugh about. Critics lob allegations at him. Concerts get cancelled. Is Manson evil?
Well, he signed a corset for a June 29 charity concert/auction. The cause—a New York City organization specializing in the care of infants born with drug or alcohol addictions, or ones born infected with HIV. However he doesn't mind when critics miss these things because "I don't do things to impress people. If I'm presented with something I believe in then I'll do it. I'm the type of person where if I like someone I'm a very kind person, otherwise I keep to myself."
Three years ago, Manson came across as genuinely interested in the philosophies his band personified. Now he comes across a little dry. Some of his responses are verbatim to quotes published in other articles. His comments on being a Satanist (in fact he's a [Anton Szandor] LaVey Satanist—who doesn't believe in Heaven or Hell but in personal power) were identical to the ones in Rolling Stone #763. "I'm as much a member of the Church of Satan as I'm a member of where I was baptized: Saint Paul's Episcopalian in Canton Ohio [an organization which he never left]."
Then again, this is a man who probably responds to the same questions over a dozen times a day.
"I've never set out to shock people because it's too easy and pointless," says Manson. "I've always been provocative in order to make people think. I know there's a lot of conversations about me and it's always a positive thing to have people talking."
So while people think they know Manson, he only gives us what he wants to. The biggest hint to what Manson's about comes from one of his biggest influences. While people may think he gets it all from Alice Cooper, he sees David Bowie as his biggest influence. And his response on how the Bowie image constantly changes should give us a clue about Manson's future.
"Marilyn Manson is what rock and roll always should have been and anything else is mediocre." says Manson. "I think I'm always growing and evolving. [On pulling a Bowieesque image change] I think that's a distinct possibility."
Marilyn Manson
Shaw Conference Centre
(whether they like it or not)
July 26
