Interview:1997/03 Twiggy Ramirez: The Antichrist Superstar's Musical Prophet

Twiggy Ramirez: The Antichrist Superstar's Musical Prophet
Interview with Twiggy Ramirez
Date	March, 1997
Source	Metal Edge
Interviewer	Paul Gargano

If you ask the members of Marilyn Manson, there's nothing unusual about the apocalyptic shock-rockers' ascension to superstar status. But then again, they don't consider what they do shock rock. Rightfully so, Marilyn Manson and his coven of musical misanthropes rise above the everyday definition of shock rock, giving new meaning to a term that Alice Cooper, Iggy Pop, and KISS made popular more than 20 years ago. The biggest difference? Unlike metal acts of yesteryear, where the act ended when the band got off the stage, until then providing an escape from everyday life, Marilyn Manson offers an alternative to everyday life, weaving the lead singer's personal beliefs and visions with equally dark and sinister music. Marilyn Manson live the message that their music delivers.

In the month since the release of Antichrist Superstar, the Florida-based quintet has undergone an image mutation that has left music fans either cringing in horror, flocking with morbid curiosity, or for the die-hards, eagerly awaiting the opportunity to experience the rock'n'roll sideshow that the Manson brigade is presently caravaning across the United States. No longer viewed as a novelty act, with videos based on Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory and a made-for-MTV rendition of the Eurythmics' "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" that primed the pump for mainstream success, Marilyn Manson is now a musical - and dare we say cultural? - force to be reckoned with.

Manson's personal beliefs aside, the singer's message, in it's rawest form, focuses on the power of the individual, stressing the importance of personal strength as opposed to succumbing to the masses. Though he doesn't want people to follow him blindly, Marilyn looks to lead by example. Antichrist Superstar is an autobiographical account of Manson's revelations, dreams and visions. They may be repulsive to some, but they are a reality he has embraced.

But Marilyn wasn't the only one without sugarplums dancing in his head. It almost seems too appropriate, too fitting in the grand scheme of the Manson takeover of mainstream music, that bass player Twiggy Ramirez would share in the prophecies and foresights. Without Twiggy, who wrote much of the music and played all of the bass parts and the bulk of the guitar parts on the album, Marilyn's lyrics wouldn't carry half their weight. Musically, Antichrist Superstar plays like a horror movie, creeping around every bend, lashing out without warning, and pummeling without relent. The music underscores Marilyn's prose, turning Antichrist Superstar into a living and breathing entity.

Before Marilyn Manson, "I was in a couple of death metal/black metal bands, sort of like Celtic Frost and Venom," said Twiggy (above). "I liked the anger and the message, but I realized that the vehicle for that music couldn't go too far, there was a limited audience for that type of music. Working with Marilyn Manson, we're going to go for the same goal, but reach a broader audience."

"People are jealous," said Twiggy of Marilyn Manson's critics. "Music is so bland right now. You've got a bunch of crappy bands pretending that they feel sorry for themselves and don't want to be rock stars. We're the exception."

Catching up with Marilyn Manson, in the face of Superstar's debut at No. 3 on the Billboard album chart and their newfound mainstream success, is no easy task as the media demands more and more of their time. After completing a late soundcheck and finishing two photo shoots at the Webster Theater in Hartford, CT, Twiggy took the time to talk, amongst other things, about his growing role in Marilyn Manson, the departure of guitarist Daisy Berkowitz, and his image and the image of Marilyn Manson.

P: A great place to start would be Antichrist Superstar. You contributed quite a bit of the writing to the album, was it difficult writing music to go with Marilyn's lyrics?

T: Marilyn and I, while we were on tour for Smells Like Children, were having the same dreams at night - that's when we were sleeping. We were going through sleep deprivation, staying up for five or six days on end. We began writing these songs together. We almost spoke by mental telepathy, we knew exactly what each other was thinking and what we wanted for each of the songs. The creative process went really well.

P: Sleep deprivation? How did that help the creative process?

T: We pulled influences. For inspiration we did everything from movies and drugs to music. Eventually we ran out of movies, the music got boring, the drugs wore off, and we had to go to other means. It's almost like a near-death experience after four, five, six days without sleep. Obviously, you start hallucinating after a while and you start to see things differently. You actually see things how they really are, and it's pretty scary. You lose sight of everyday problems.

P: With the lineup changes, was it more difficult recording the album?

T: Zim (Zum, new guitarist) joined the band after we recorded this record. Daisy (Berkowitz, Marilyn Manson's original guitarist) only contributed a few things on this record, he ran out of ideas and I was left to pick up all the slack alone. It was pretty hard for me. Luckily, Trent (Reznor, Nine Inch Nails frontman and a Superstar co-producer) was there to help me, because he was the only other string musician, besides Manson, who plays guitar as well. It gave me a different opinion. Writing the songs was nothing, but going in and recording them we made some changes; it was nice to have another musician there, like another member of the band to help me have another outlook at some of the stuff, because Daisy just did not contribute whatsoever. I think the more unsure of myself I was in the recording process, the better off I was. This led me to not really have a solid grip on everything, and I could steer myself to be able to record two different parts so it wouldn't sound like it came from one person.

P: So you had to step up and play a significant role in the writing. What was that like creatively?

T: The very first album I had nothing to do with, I joined the band shortly after it was recorded. The first album was a band, it was a recording of a live performance. Smells Like Children was mostly covers, I contributed one piece of original music to that, "Scabs, Guns and Peanut Butter," that was the first thing I did for Marilyn Manson. On this album, Marilyn and I had this weird link together during the writing. We didn't talk to anyone else for a while, we isolated ourselves, and while we were on tour, the shows really didn't matter, we were just writing this record, staying up for days on end. We would speak for hours and hours and hours just about a song before we played a chord, before we wrote a note.

Although he played the majority of the guitar tracks on Antichrist Superstar, Twiggy doesn't own an electric guitar. "I had owned an acoustic guitar, all the songs that I was involved with were written on it, I just thought the best songs could be played on one. With an electric guitar, the music gets cluttered up." He said the recorded transition from acoustic to electric was "painful."

P: It's amazing how well the music matches with the lyrics, it's not like listening to a record, it's like watching a horror movie.

T: That's what it is, it's like a play. I look at the music more as a score to this movie.

P: Were you surprised at the immediate success of the album, debuting at No.3?

T: We knew it was going to debut at No. 3 because three was a very popular number on the record. There were three of us who contributed to it - myself, Marilyn and Madonna Wayne Gacy - there are three parts to the record, it's divided into three sections, as well as Antichrist Superstar, as introduced, there's another side to Marilyn Manson. Plus there are a lot of other things that we really can't talk about. Three has just been showing up a lot on this record. We're glad it debuted at three, it was supposed to be three. If it debuted at one, that would have been wrong.

P: How about the explosion in your fan base?

T: We all knew this was going to happen, it's all part of the big plan. For my personal self, there hasn't really been a moment of arrival for me yet, because we're not there yet. I'm not ready to settle down.

P: With "Beautiful People" being all over MTV, following the commercial success of "Sweet Dreams," does it feel like your audience is getting watered down as you enter the mainstream?

T: No, we're here to change the mainstream because it's very bland. Grunge music was very exciting for a while, but it made the music very boring, there were no rock stars, everyone was "Poor me, I don't want to be a rock star, I'm so depressed" - which is a bunch of nonsense. It's Hootie and the Blowfish, there's nothing exciting out there. So I'm proud to be a part of the mainstream because somebody has to change it. It has to get more exciting.

P: So you're comfortable with the success? What do you see as the purpose of the band?

T: Absolutely. Someone's got to raise the kids out there, because if their parents raise them, they're going to end up like us.

P: How do you want to raise the kids today? What do you hope for them?

T: To grow up and be responsible Christians.

P: Christians? I'm confused. Can you explain?

T: Confusion is the best form of communication. It's left to be unexplained.

P: Then we must be communicating really well! Marilyn is affiliated with the Church of Satan, are you a Satanist?

T: No.

P: Are you a Christian?

T: No. I was raised with no religion at all. I have never stepped foot in a church. I'm nothing, why would you put a label on it? But I wouldn't be in the band if I didn't believe what it stood for.

P: What was your upbringing like?

T: I was born on the road, I'm not exactly sure where because my mom used to dance in a cage onstage for Mountain, Leslie West. So I was born on the road, I'm not exactly sure where. She used to dance for the Kinks as well. When I was growing up I was around music constantly. My aunt, who I was living with, was a groupie as well, as my mom was. She was friends with the Ramones, they used to come over. She used to date one of the Bee Gees.

P: How did you get involved with Marilyn, I know you initially met in a mall, right?

T: Me and Marilyn used to be in side projects together. We had a band called Mrs. Scabtree, where he played drums and I dressed up like a black woman and sang. Then we had Satan on Fire, a Christian death metal band. We wanted to infiltrate all the Christian nightclubs, so I played guitar and sang, and Marilyn played lead bass. We had a number of side projects together. We met in a mall one day while shopping for a Twisted Sister album, or something.

P: When were the side projects?

T: During Marilyn Manson, before they were signed and I was in the band. That's how I got in the band, we were in side projects together. He played drums and bass just to give him something different to do. Practicing that, that's what taught him how to play guitar. He played some guitar on [Superstar] as well.

Zim Zum (left, pictured with Twiggy) replaced original guitarist Daisy Berkowitz. "I saw an ad in a paper, went to Kmart and had a picture taken, sent it to them, and they called me," said Zim, who had been living in Chicago at the time.

P: How about before that, you were in a band called Amboogalard, right?

T: Yeah, Amboogalard was a death metal band.

P: You've mentioned Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show before, what were they like?

T: I was in them briefly, that was really early on. I played violin. They were a country-western, disco band, with a little rockabilly. They released a few albums, but nothing ever really happened.

P: Violin? What made you start playing that?

T: I was in elementary school. I wanted to learn how to play the violin after going to see Star Wars. When I got older, and became a teenager, it became Mötley Crüe's Shout at the Devil, Twisted Sister's Stay Hungry, Iron Maiden, stuff like that. Right now, I'm trying to pull all my creative influences from home video games from the '70s and '80s. I've been collecting Atari, Intellivision, Coleco, Pong, I'm trying to steal music from them, actually. As I'm playing them, I record them. Sometimes the sound effects, while you're playing, remind you of songs.

P: Have the games been tough to find?

T: I mentioned it in an interview, and a lot of kids have brought games and controllers to shows. Maybe more will read about it here.

P: Speaking of fans, I brought some of the mail we've been getting regarding you guys, and I can't tell you how many people are picking you for Female Best Performer.

T: Did I win!?

P: The Reader's Choice Poll just started, but it looks like you'll give Sean (Yseult, White Zombie) a run for her money! How do you feel about being in the running for Best Female Performer?

T: I think I got my first erection when I was wearing my mother's underpants growing up. It's just a side of me that I feel comfortable with, and other people seem to feel comfortable with as well. I want to continue to try and break the barrier between male and female. I'm obviously not a hermaphrodite, but people seem to think so. There's an area between the two [sexes]. You don't have to be heterosexual, bisexual, or gay, it's just sort of everything.

P: What does the future hold for you guys? I've heard the next leg of your tour will be arenas?

T: If we last that long, which I think we will. We almost self-destructed during the recording of the record. It was almost over because several of us were going a little crazy, but we got through it. During the writing process of this there were many attempts, or thoughts, of ending the band, ending everything, and trying to destroy the world. The record was therapy, but I can still feel that back in my head, it's making me feel the same way. It's not a tension between members, it's just tension all together. We'll see what happens.

As far as the Internet is concerned, Twiggy calls it the CB radio of the '90s. "I don't believe in the Internet," he said. Are any of the band members online? "Absolutely not." Which means America Online is filled with nothing but impostors. Buyers beware!

Scans

Credit: DirectorNo5819

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