Interview:1995/02 PORTRAIT OF AN AMERICAN NONCOMFORMIST

PORTRAIT OF AN AMERICAN NONCOMFORMIST
Interview with Marilyn Manson
Date	February, 1995
Source	RIP Magazine
Interviewer	Jim Rose

Last July, while touring Australia, I got a call from Nine Inch Nails asking the Jim Rose Circus to open for them. Well, my dearest RIP darlings, it's no secret that I am a NIN fanatic, so I climbed to a rooftop and screamed "YES" into the telephone so loudly my agent still hasn't regained all of his hearing. Nine Inch Nails, Jim Rose Circus and Marilyn Manson. Marilyn Manson! Who the f?!k is Marilyn Manson? I picked up their CD, Portrait Of An American Family, (Nothing/Interscope) and found myself wanting to listen to it every day. On that teenage night when I lost my virginity, if Marilyn Manson had been played loudly, I would have had a better orgasm. They strike fire in a nerve.

When our tour bus parked at Ball State University in Muncie, Indiana, to start this sold-out tour, I still didn't know what the person responsible for a song called "Cake And Sodomy" was like. Then, while walking through a gymnasium corridor, I saw, in the darkened distance, a figure coming toward me. With shadows of broken-down basketball hoops bouncing off us, we came close enough to see each other. The he-she, looking as beautiful as Monroe and as sinister as Charlie [Manson] says, "Hi, Jim Rose, I'm Marilyn Manson, this is going to be fun."

That night I left my dressing room early to catch their set. It was exhilarating. Marilyn Manson [ Daisy Berkowitz, Twiggy Ramirez, Madonna Wayne Gacy, Sara Lee Lucas and, of course, the band's namesake singer, Marilyn Manson ] has a charisma that incites, and excites, so please allow me to present some insight into the fine mind of Mr. Manson himself.

JIM ROSE: One of the first rumors I heard was your reputation for degrading humans...

MARILYN MANSON: I don't really have any place in my heart for stupid or weak people. I try my hardest to be a strong person. I think with anyone, the thing that they hate are their own fears, and I guess through a little bit of self-analysis, I've realized that I have a fear of being a weak person. So Marilyn Manson is a bit of a challenge to people's intelligence; it's almost a little bit of a science project to see how far I can push you, and see exactly what kind of a reaction I can get. If you listen to Marilyn Manson and you decide to go off and commit some act of violence, or you decide to kill yourself, then that's a responsibility you need to take for yourself, that's nothing you can put off on me or off on the television or anything like that. If anyone, your parents should be responsible for raising you to be an idiot, so that you will be influenced so easily by someone in a band. I've never gone out and told anyone to commit any of these acts, but if somebody kills themselves because of our music, then that's one less stupid person in the world. There are too many people in the world, and they need to make way for the people who actually can contribute something to society. If you've got that kind of mentality where you would so easily be swayed, then you have no contribution, you have no place to stand in my movement,' if you want to call it that.

JR: Is there is a hint of Charles Manson in any of your philosophy? Is he influential on Marilyn Manson?

MM: Absolutely. I think Charles Manson is the greatest rock star of all time. He was all about music; he never even had to have a hit and he's one of the biggest stars that you could ever find. That's something that we can thank America for, whether you like it or not, America put him there. [Hmm. Can you say Natural Born Killers? - Ed.] Charles Manson was saying a lot of things that are not unlike what I'm saying today. There's a lot of irony in the way things have come into play, there's an irony in the fact that 25 years ago there was the same kind of tensions socially, racially. There was the same threat of war, there was Woodstock, there was a lot of hypocrisy with the hippie culture and their seed o' love bullshit. Hippie, short for hypocrite, of course. Then there's 25 years later, and I'm 25 myself. A lot of people don't want to look into what he had to say, because of what he did, but I think it's important to point out that what he did is really no different then what my father did in Vietnam - my father killed people, he didn't believe in it. Charles Manson killed people, he at least believed in it - that he had a reason for it. Neither one is right or wrong, it just is. Killing is killing, there's no difference. Society makes one person a hero and another person a criminal, it's just a popularity contest. Morality is decided by the man with the most artillery. That's pretty much my view on Charles Manson. Good and evil, God and Satan - these words can all be used to replace Marilyn Manson. It's all about that balance of give and take, and the push and pull. That's where real power can be found.

JR: Do you condone backstage debauchery and decadence?

MM: I think everybody is responsible for themselves. If someone puts themselves in a situation where they're going to be degraded and they choose to be, then I have no problem with that. I don't seek out to harm innocent people, but if someone comes into my place of business, which would be backstage, and they come with the attitude of 'do what you want,' and since I go by the attitude of 'do what you will,' that is the whole of the law. Then I will do exactly that. And they should know going into that, that they run the risk of being degraded.

JR: We've covered the Manson end of this, but as far a charisma goes - and beauty - I think you warrant the first name of Marilyn. How did you choose it?

MM: In 1990, when this whole thing started coming down, I was just writing lyrics. I had no intention of singing or starting a band. The name Marilyn Manson is something that came to me - through watching talk shows and reading Hollywood babble and that type of propaganda and sensationalism. I realized that Marilyn Monroe and Charles Manson were the two most outstanding people from the '60s. I think Marilyn Monroe really epitomizes movie stardom. As I got into the idea further, I started realizing that the extreme positive and negative that I was trying to outline with these two names. There was a lot of beauty to be found in Manson. There was a lot of ugliness to be found in Monroe. The lines crossed. I resided in that gray area; that what I was doing transcended morality and sexuality.

JR: If one only reads the words, they would think that this is tabloid fare, scandalous simply push boundaries. But upon listening to your music, it's brilliant. A personality coupled with killer hooks.

MM: I think that if the music didn't mean anything to anyone, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. I don't think that people would want to hear what I had to say if they didn't like our music. At the same time, I don't want people to just get away with just liking our music. They need to accept the baggage that comes along with it.

JR: You and I have something in common: The Jim Rose Circus and Marilyn Manson seem to get banned from a lot of places. You had trouble with the law in Utah.

MM: I think Salt Lake City was a place where there wasn't much separation of church and state. I think it was a case where it was almost Nazi Germany there, where they didn't want to let people think what they wanted. They wanted to make the decision for everyone - whether they could see Marilyn Manson or not. They found our show to be completely objectionable - lyrics, talking in between songs, the way I present myself onstage, the way I look, the way I gesture, just everything about Marilyn Manson they didn't like. I'm assuming it comes down to money, because I don't think they care about the kids. I think they care about money, and there was some fear of losing money involved, and that's what really struck home for them. On the other hand, we do care about the kids and I think what they're afraid of is that they're feeling guilty that they're not raising their kids responsibly enough to make a choice like whether or not to see Marilyn Manson or Jim Rose. The message that I'm sending out to them is 'raise your kids better or I'll be raising them for you.' And what we know is that isn't so bad, because I want to raise kids in truth and tell them that everything is a lie. That there is no truth. You find which lie you can buy into and then you can go from there. The Mormons and organizations like that are no different than what I'm doing. It's just that I'm willing to admit what I'm doing. I think that Christian American is the biggest Satan of all, because they are pulling off such a horrendous scam that it's almost respectable. They're just not willing to admit they're doing it. And I'm saying right off the bat 'Look, I'm a hypocrite. I don't practice what I preach. Nobody's perfect.'

JR: What - musically - have been your influences?

MM: As a kid, I remember my first record was Kiss Alive II. But, I think as far as writing music and writing songs, the things that have influenced me most were artists who have been extreme in the way they presented themselves. I've always wanted to have that same sort of spirit involved in what I was doing. So people like Iggy Pop, Alice Cooper, David Bowie, Black Sabbath and the Beatles, in their later years. Bands like that made differences and weren't always accepted by everyone and were often criticized for what they did. Those were the bands that I've always respected and that's the kind of thing we've tried to bring into what we do.

JR: I notice everywhere your tour bus goes, teams of girls are coming up to the bus. Just what is the sexual attraction of your band?

MM: That's a good question. I try to present myself in a very unattractive manner, so that surprises me whenever that happens. Maybe our fans our starting to fall into the ideal of Marilyn Manson and finding beauty in things that the rest of America or society decides is ugly. I don't think that I'm a very attractive person, but if someone were to say that I was, initially I almost take that to offense, but then I realize that maybe they're much like me and they find beauty in awkward places.

JR: Are you gay or straight?

MM: I don't try to limit it in any way. I guess that would be the way I would answer that question.

JR: Your career was going along at an incredible pace in Florida, but certainly Trent Reznor coming into the picture took it to another level. What's your relationship with Trent?

MM: Trent and I are almost like brothers, I think. We're very good friends. There's a mutual respect there. I met him shortly after the band had started and we had a lot in common, both coming from a Midwest background. I passed along some tapes to him over the years and he seemed to like the band, and when he got his own label, he asked us to be on it. And what he was offering was what we wanted and that was the ability to present Marilyn Manson unexpurgated to America without censoring anything or holding anything back. And he's been behind us all the way.

JR: With Marilyn Manson, there are many different messages on so many different levels. A lot of it seems to be from television, pornography, violence. I saw a banner in San Francisco: 'Marilyn, the boat stops here.' Can you explain?

MM: One of my favorite movies as a kid was Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory. I thought Willy Wonka really represented the devil, and I've always been attracted to the bad guy. Why was he the bad guy? Later I realized that it's all according to perspective. If you're standing with the bad guy, then somebody else is the bad guy. But I always thought that Willy Wonka represented that dark side, cause he lured the children with the sweets and things that were forbidden. And I liked him. And I thought that the part of the movie where they're on the boat was a very strong, strong piece. One of the strongest things I've ever seen in any movie. I started using that to open our show and of course that ended up on our album, because I think when you take that passage and interpret it into a modern context, it's very apocalyptic and it's very true.

JR: While we were in San Francisco, I know you went to Anton LaVey's house. He is the founder of the Church of Satan. In what way are you aligned with Satanism?

MM: First off, I think it's important to explain Satanism, because Hollywood and the media often portray it in an incorrect manner. They glamorize it and make it out to be something it isn't. Satanism is really about all the things I've been speaking of. I think the balance factor of Marilyn Manson kind of exemplifies what Satanism is about. It's not about a devil. It's about realizing, much like Nietzsche said, that you are your own god. I guess a word for it would be 'me-ism,' because it's a very selfish philosophy, it's not so much a religion. What happens with the media is that they portray Satanism in a very Hollywood, horror-movie, sensationalist manner. In America, Satanism is often lumped in with teenage dabblers who acknowledge Christianity's God. Where Satanism doesn't acknowledge Christianity's God. So they're merely a byproduct of Christianity and they have nothing to do with Satanism. And these are your kids that are sacrificing animals and spray-painting pentagrams on churches and things like that. That has nothing to do with Satanism. While I was in San Francisco I did meet with Dr. LaVey, and he respects the things that we're doing, and he contacted me and he asked for the meeting. He gave me a special place in his organization, and acknowledged the power that someone in my position may or may not be able to wield with America's youth.

JR: If you could be or do anything, have anything you want, what would you do?

MM: I think I'm living that right now. I'm not unsatisfied in any way with my present status. However, I know that when I retire I'll either become a third-grade teacher or a TV evangelist so that I could further the scam that tends to keep perpetuating itself in America. I think what would be really enjoyable when I retire... I would feign being a born-again Christian and I would get people's money to help me stop other bands like Marilyn Manson, but secretly I would be funding other bands like Marilyn Manson. And that would be the ultimate thing to pull across in America.

JR: Is Marilyn Manson a cartoon?

MM: I think the entire world is a badly drawn cartoon and we happen to be the only real characters walking around in it...

JR: In conclusion, I predict that within the next year Marilyn Manson will either be dead, in jail, or one of the biggest rock bands on the planet.

Scans

Credit: DirectorNo5819

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